Cold Start Switch on lower left dash

Since it's difficult to tell if the flame heater is actually working, I put together a monitoring device, shown here. It turns on a light on the dash when a flame is detected. Squirting raw fuel into the intake manifold is not helping if not lit....

Cranetruck: What is that flame sensor, part number? Is this something from a gas appliance?

December 26th, 2008.

Boys, We're getting mighty scientific here..... My observation of my deuce is as follows: If it's much below 10*F above, she's likely going to need the flame heater. How do I know if it's working? When I crank the truck and hit the heater switch, she fires almost instantly.... And the exhaust plume will change color accordingly.... The manual says to use it intermittently as the truck warms up to even it out if its running rough and to help the truck get up to operating temperature. The Multifuel diesel seems to be more forgiving on cold starts then do most modern diesels, even those with glow plugs or ether starting systems, I guess the Army just figured "Winter Happens". The German Diesels I have worked with, primarily the Deutz Air Cooled FL912's never needed the ether to start, even at -30*F, they would run rough first time and cut out within 30 seconds, second time they'd run and pick right up to speed. If I could afford a Deutz for the Deuce, it would be seriously tempting as the reliability is exceptional.
By comparision, my 1963 Swiss Unimogwith the M180 6 cylinder gas engine (134 CID) is a abosuute dinosaur about starting when cold, and it has to be choked just about untill it gets near operating temperature.... then it's a whole different beast. The Mercedes Benz diesels in the Unimogs would be worth knowing about as to how they handle winter, as most younger Unimogs are diesels.....?
I hope you guys have a safe and proseperous New Years.....

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare"
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Unimog, S.404.114
1968 Johnson Corp M105A2 Cargo Trailer
1967 Hercules MEP023A Gas Gen Set APU

It looks like the flame heater on my ldt465-D had the wire pulled off an hooked up to the solenoid on the ether bottle. The data plate on the switch is still instructions for flame heater.
Do the 250 cummins motors in the 818 trucks start easy in the cold?

jeepin said:

Cranetruck: What is that flame sensor, part number? Is this something from a gas appliance?

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Nope, it's homemade.
http://imageevent.com/cranetruck/flamedetector

I started my Multi at 9deg. Ether kit isn't hooked up (I need to do that now that the beast is living in Idaho!). It took 3 runs of cranking, about 5 seconds each. Took off on the 3rd go. Much colder and I think I would need the ether, or a block heater.

jim-m35a2 said:

It was 9 degrees here Sunday. I hit the starter switch on the Deuce and she did not start. Cranked her again using the Flame Heater and she came to life.

Jim

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I think we just got above 10 degrees here. I followed the prescribed method of using the heater and it still didn't start. I stopped trying before I killed the batteries so badly that they would freeze.

I think that I have problems with air in the fuel lines. When I picked it up at Ft. Riley it started easily. I ran it out of fuel at the storage yard and had to bleed air out of a valve on the top of the fuel filters to get it to start, but it has been hard to start since. There is no 110 Volt source close to it so I can’t recharge the batteries without taking them out. I plan to go out with extra batteries and try again when I have some help. Volunteers are hard to find in this weather.

Does the in tank fuel pump work?

Jim
________
Vapir No2

KaiserM109 said:

I think we just got above 10 degrees here. I followed the prescribed method of using the heater and it still didn't start. I stopped trying before I killed the batteries so badly that they would freeze.
.......
I think that I have problems with air in the fuel lines. When I picked it up at Ft.Riley it started easily. I ran it out of fuel at the storage yard and had to bleed air out of a valve on the top of the fuel filters to get it to start, but it has been hard to start since.......r.

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If the battery voltage drops below about 22 volts (into the red zone of the gauge), stop cranking or you may burn up the starter too.

I have noticed that there will be an air pocket in the lines whenever the truck sits for a week or more, it may be a good idea to always bleed the fuel lines when the engine hasn't been started for some time.

I generally worry more about burning up the starter and batteries. So I will give it just a little shot of ether right away if it is 10 or colder and its been sitting for a while.
I have never seen any ether caused damage. Maybe Myth Busters has tried it.

yorkgulch2 said:

I generally worry more about burning up the starter and batteries. So I will give it just a little shot of ether right away if it is 10 or colder and its been sitting for a while.
I have never seen any ether caused damage. Maybe Myth Busters has tried it.

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I agree with your concerns about burning up a starter. My deuce is hard to start even in the summer after it sits all night. Once it's been ran it will start immediately for he rest of the day therefore I give it a shot just about every morning. I'd rather do that than crank for 20 to 30 seconds.

I replaced the original flame heater system with an ether shot system. I feel it works better all the way round. The key with ether is to use a system that meters a small amount and not a hand held spray can. I feel because of the high compression of the multi they are VERY sensitive to ether. A little bit will go a long way. I would NEVER use a spray can to fog the intake then jump in and hit the button.

Usually, when my deuce has been pluggeg in overnight one shot (press of the button) will bring her to life. When it's 20 below or colder it may take one shot to get it hitting (while cranking) and one more while she's stumbling around trying to get her equilibrium. I never use so much that I get a pre-ignitioin knock. Too much ether washed down the liners --- not good.

dabtl said:

......But, when it is 20 degrees outside, God meant for man to stay around the fire not drive.

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Several million people that live in the north country and thoroughly enjoy the winters, me included, disagree with that statement.

SasquatchSanta said:

Several million people that live in the north country and thoroughly enjoy the winters, me included, disagree with that statement.

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I would concur with SasquatchSanta. Deuces kick butt, even in cold weather

I run mine in -10F temps regularly. Only problem I have is that I am missing the duct system under the dash of two of my deuces, so I have to let the trucks sit a while to defrost the windshields.

Hello Cranetruck, What exactly is 1 / tenth of an inch ?? in. I tried mine out the other day after replaceing the fuel pump and the flame only seems to last about 1-2 seconds before going out. I removed the plug in the intake to watch it for testing and it flames for the 1-2 seconds and then goes out but the fuel mist is still working. I removed the sparkplug from the intake and it is soaked in fuel but when I hook it up to the lead it has plenty of spark. I clean the plug and install it back into the intake and try again only to have it flame for the 1-2 seconds before it quits, any thoughts??????

Yeah, I have much better performance in the naturally aspirated engine.....the intake manifold is wider and the airflow slower. It's possible that the intake manifold for the turbo with its smaller cross section and faster air flow simply snuffs out the flame....

A tenth of an inch is 100 thousands or 0.1 inch. (2.5 millimeter)

Where do you get the ether bottle or parts for that type of start assist system?

Well today I pulled the plug out and gaped it to around the .095 and tried it without starting it up and there is no flame at all now . I removed the spare plug in the intake and I can see the light coming fom the spark plug when power is applied and no flame. when I removed the spark plug I tested the spark as well as the fuel spray pattern which were bothe fine. This is frusterating now as ther is both fuel and spark but no flame . Any other thoughts ????