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Run flats on a deuce?

patracy

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Have to be on a A3 wheel or a recentered HEMTT/MRAP/PLS wheel. Can't have runflats with tubes.
 

olly hondro

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I thought the issue was getting the run flats OUT of the 395s. I instructed my tire vendor to leave them in.
 

patracy

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Are 395's run flats to begin with when they are on A3 wheels? If so that is another plus to converting a deuce to super singles.
They do not have runflats, just beadlocks.

I don't believe you can run 395's on A3 wheels, the rim lip is too small.
You can mount them, and many have ran them, there is a debate on if one should or should not though.
 

silverstate55

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I have the solid Kevlar run-flats in both of my front Michelin XZL 395s. They were a PITA to mount, but seem to run just fine on the test drives I've taken them on. I'm running recentered FMTV wheels, and the beads seem to snug up just fine, no leaks nor other problems as of yet.

I prefer the beadlocks instead, they make mounting & seating a snap for 395s; when these run-flat tires go bad, I don't think I'll be replacing them with more run-flats unless I have some very positive experiences with them.
 

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Deuceshigh

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Is there a better run flat option using A3 wheels? I would like a deuce but after hearing multiple stories from some local Vets about how they (the truck) would lose a front tire and crash at highway speeds, Id prefer to have a safer option (especially since I do at least two 500 mile drives on the highway a year).
 

silverstate55

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I've driven plenty of trucks that have had front tires go flat, including 2 blowouts....I've NEVER had a problem keeping the truck on the road. Just look ahead at a point just off the road on the shoulder, and coast onto the shoulder...once your speed is way down, you can use your brakes GENTLY to bring the vehicle to a stop.

I've never come close to crashing, and the crashes I've seen from blowouts are from the drivers over-correcting.

It's sort of like saying that you should never turn the truck around ANY corner at more than 5mph (especially freeway curves, watch how many dumba$$es brake needlessly for gentle turns while they're doing the speed limit), or else it could flip over and blow up like in the movies.
 

Deuceshigh

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I've driven plenty of trucks that have had front tires go flat, including 2 blowouts....I've NEVER had a problem keeping the truck on the road. Just look ahead at a point just off the road on the shoulder, and coast onto the shoulder...once your speed is way down, you can use your brakes GENTLY to bring the vehicle to a stop.

I've never come close to crashing, and the crashes I've seen from blowouts are from the drivers over-correcting.

It's sort of like saying that you should never turn the truck around ANY corner at more than 5mph (especially freeway curves, watch how many dumba$$es brake needlessly for gentle turns while they're doing the speed limit), or else it could flip over and blow up like in the movies.
Well thats nice, but I am not you nor am I as confident a driver in similar situations. With no power steering and me pooping my pants I would prefer to have some redundancy that would help me stay calm(ish) in that situation. It is like having a condom on you in college, Id rather have it and not need it, for if I need it and don't have it bad things could potentially happen.
 

silverstate55

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It's simply a matter of staying calm & making yourself keep your wits about you...having somebody else with you won't give you that. I have thousands of hours in the passenger seat as a driving instructor, so I know having someone qualified sitting next to you does little good (sometimes it is actually worse, as the driver is more worried about what the passenger is doing/thinking instead of focusing on driving).

The key is to not panic, and hold the wheel so the nose of the truck continues going STRAIGHT. Yes, the first one is a little disconcerting, but during subsequent front tire blowouts you instantly think of the PITA it is going to be to not only have to change the tire in less-than-ideal-weather (how come tires never blow out in nice weather?!?), but now you've got one less good tire. And if you're like me you'll have to change that tire yourself, and these are the only thoughts going through your mind at that point. As well as a few choice swear words.

Most people who get into trouble in these situations are because they panic and jerk the steering wheel; some even slam on the brakes, which is the worst thing you can do at that point. When you brake, weight transfers forward onto your steer tires, which can help you steer in turns and other situations that you can use to your advantage; if you can quickly squeeze that brake pedal and hold it to a constant pressure (LESS IS MORE typically), you will know of the advantages I speak. With trailers this is even more important, as that initial squeeze allows weight to "ROLL" forward & takes slack out of the trailer hitch & tightens the load against its bindings...this usually allows the trailer to stay following the tow vehicle.

If you slam on the brakes, you quickly throw weight forward onto the front of the vehicle, and the back of the vehicle is much lighter now & carrying a LOT of momentum; squeezing the brake pedal channels this momentum to the front steer tires (generally), whereas slamming the brakes makes the momentum of the back of the vehicle and anything being towed want to "push" the rear of the vehicle to pass the front, rotating the entire vehicle around...and jack-knifing (or worse) the trailer against the towing vehicle.

If weight goes forward when you brake, think about what happens when the average operator of a motor vehicle (to be a "driver" one must have at least a basic complement of skills....most people behind the wheel these days DO NOT) slams on the brakes: weight is quickly transferred forward onto the front 2 steer tires. So when they jerk the steering wheel in addition to slamming on the brakes, they are quickly forcing a LOT of weight onto ONE STEER TIRE, as the body will roll to one side or the other when turning. Now one steer tire is bearing the majority of weight transfer, which about in 95% of the instances I've personally seen, will force a break in the coefficient of friction of the tires on that vehicle, and it begins to slide/skid/yaw. In this instance, the driver will insist that the vehicle "lost control." NO! The operator behind the wheel lost control, through their over-reaction.

In a front tire blowout situation (which I do teach at my work), look at a point straight ahead of you but at least several hundred yards ahead and keep the nose of the vehicle pointed straight towards what you are looking at (just like riding a bicycle as a kid). If you don't have to stop right away (such as on the open highway or freeway), DO NOT BRAKE - JUST COAST until your speed is slow enough to allow you to ease onto the shoulder and then you can brake to a stop SLOWLY & STEADILY. If you are in urban and/or congested traffic, SQUEEZE the brake pedal to a safe pressure and hold it steady, while you safely steer to the side of the road or turn off.

It's easier than it sounds, your only concern is to not panic when it happens. When you have the time & space to practice it, DO IT. Just come off the throttle and coast in gear, as this settles the vehicle & balances weight between front & back...it also starts taking slack out of any load bindings you might have engaged as well as in your trailer connections. Then find that point several hundred yards ahead & look at it as point keep the front of your vehicle pointed at it and gently ease your truck onto the shoulder.

This builds up experience and what some people refer to as "muscle memory," and most importantly it builds up a solid positive experience in your memory banks, that you can refer to in times of instant stress. IT WORKS. The more you do it, the more likely you are to safely revert back to your training when under stress. When it happens, there's nothing to think about, AS YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO DO & HAVE BEEN DOING IT.

I can guarantee you that having the run-flat inserts in your steer tires won't help you if you have a blowout and over-correct (slam on brakes & jerk steering wheel). Please practice these simple steps, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you will revert to your muscle memory instead of over-reacting. Plus with manual steering, you actually get a better feel for the road and in the case of a steer tire losing pressure, you will instantly feel it...it only takes once and you'll always know what happens when your steering wheel starts forcing itself to rotate against your efforts while still going straight....you'll know that one of your steer tires is quickly deflating, and you'll just start to coast while looking for a safe place to pull over.
 

silverstate55

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IIRC, run-flat inserts for military vehicles weren't to prevent "loss of control" while driving when a blowout occurs, but rather for when the tires go flat and/or are shot out under fire, and allow the drivers to get out of the danger zone & somewhere safe....to continue/accomplish the mission, rather than to prevent "loss of control."
 

Deuceshigh

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It's simply a matter of staying calm & making yourself keep your wits about you...having somebody else with you won't give you that. I have thousands of hours in the passenger seat as a driving instructor, so I know having someone qualified sitting next to you does little good (sometimes it is actually worse, as the driver is more worried about what the passenger is doing/thinking instead of focusing on driving).

The key is to not panic, and hold the wheel so the nose of the truck continues going STRAIGHT. Yes, the first one is a little disconcerting, but during subsequent front tire blowouts you instantly think of the PITA it is going to be to not only have to change the tire in less-than-ideal-weather (how come tires never blow out in nice weather?!?), but now you've got one less good tire. And if you're like me you'll have to change that tire yourself, and these are the only thoughts going through your mind at that point. As well as a few choice swear words.

Most people who get into trouble in these situations are because they panic and jerk the steering wheel; some even slam on the brakes, which is the worst thing you can do at that point. When you brake, weight transfers forward onto your steer tires, which can help you steer in turns and other situations that you can use to your advantage; if you can quickly squeeze that brake pedal and hold it to a constant pressure (LESS IS MORE typically), you will know of the advantages I speak. With trailers this is even more important, as that initial squeeze allows weight to "ROLL" forward & takes slack out of the trailer hitch & tightens the load against its bindings...this usually allows the trailer to stay following the tow vehicle.

If you slam on the brakes, you quickly throw weight forward onto the front of the vehicle, and the back of the vehicle is much lighter now & carrying a LOT of momentum; squeezing the brake pedal channels this momentum to the front steer tires (generally), whereas slamming the brakes makes the momentum of the back of the vehicle and anything being towed want to "push" the rear of the vehicle to pass the front, rotating the entire vehicle around...and jack-knifing (or worse) the trailer against the towing vehicle.

If weight goes forward when you brake, think about what happens when the average operator of a motor vehicle (to be a "driver" one must have at least a basic complement of skills....most people behind the wheel these days DO NOT) slams on the brakes: weight is quickly transferred forward onto the front 2 steer tires. So when they jerk the steering wheel in addition to slamming on the brakes, they are quickly forcing a LOT of weight onto ONE STEER TIRE, as the body will roll to one side or the other when turning. Now one steer tire is bearing the majority of weight transfer, which about in 95% of the instances I've personally seen, will force a break in the coefficient of friction of the tires on that vehicle, and it begins to slide/skid/yaw. In this instance, the driver will insist that the vehicle "lost control." NO! The operator behind the wheel lost control, through their over-reaction.

In a front tire blowout situation (which I do teach at my work), look at a point straight ahead of you but at least several hundred yards ahead and keep the nose of the vehicle pointed straight towards what you are looking at (just like riding a bicycle as a kid). If you don't have to stop right away (such as on the open highway or freeway), DO NOT BRAKE - JUST COAST until your speed is slow enough to allow you to ease onto the shoulder and then you can brake to a stop SLOWLY & STEADILY. If you are in urban and/or congested traffic, SQUEEZE the brake pedal to a safe pressure and hold it steady, while you safely steer to the side of the road or turn off.

It's easier than it sounds, your only concern is to not panic when it happens. When you have the time & space to practice it, DO IT. Just come off the throttle and coast in gear, as this settles the vehicle & balances weight between front & back...it also starts taking slack out of any load bindings you might have engaged as well as in your trailer connections. Then find that point several hundred yards ahead & look at it as point keep the front of your vehicle pointed at it and gently ease your truck onto the shoulder.

This builds up experience and what some people refer to as "muscle memory," and most importantly it builds up a solid positive experience in your memory banks, that you can refer to in times of instant stress. IT WORKS. The more you do it, the more likely you are to safely revert back to your training when under stress. When it happens, there's nothing to think about, AS YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO DO & HAVE BEEN DOING IT.

I can guarantee you that having the run-flat inserts in your steer tires won't help you if you have a blowout and over-correct (slam on brakes & jerk steering wheel). Please practice these simple steps, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you will revert to your muscle memory instead of over-reacting. Plus with manual steering, you actually get a better feel for the road and in the case of a steer tire losing pressure, you will instantly feel it...it only takes once and you'll always know what happens when your steering wheel starts forcing itself to rotate against your efforts while still going straight....you'll know that one of your steer tires is quickly deflating, and you'll just start to coast while looking for a safe place to pull over.
I know rationally what to do, and thankfully only had a front tire blow out at about 10 MPH (darned 2x4s with nails!). The way I look at it, run flats don't hurt and if nothing else they make me feel better which often does lots of good. Call them my security blanket (and me Linus). :mrgreen: Also, thank you for the tips on how to handle the blow out. I really just let off the gas and coasted to a stop but that won't really work on the highway.
IIRC, run-flat inserts for military vehicles weren't to prevent "loss of control" while driving when a blowout occurs, but rather for when the tires go flat and/or are shot out under fire, and allow the drivers to get out of the danger zone & somewhere safe....to continue/accomplish the mission, rather than to prevent "loss of control."
Thats what I figured as well, but they still can't hurt me should I have a blowout. Plus now Im better prepared if zombies come. :whistle:
 

silverstate55

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If your Deuce still has manual steering, let me know how you enjoy steering it with those 395s...I'm saving for one of M35-Tom's power steering kits. :mrgreen:
 

Deuceshigh

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If your Deuce still has manual steering, let me know how you enjoy steering it with those 395s...I'm saving for one of M35-Tom's power steering kits. :mrgreen:
I may just use some better tires (i.e. better traction) in the stock size. Thats a 9x20 or 11x20 no? Probably easier to steer.
 

silverstate55

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Correct; I have 11.00x20 on Deuce rims for my 2 parts trucks...when I purchased my Deuce, it had some Goodyear 11.00x20 tires on it, they're very nice. The steering is MUCH easier with the smaller, lighter tires. It's not so bad once you're rolling, but trying to turn while stopped is a serious workout (and I keep hitting my left elbow on the top of the driver's door, one of these days it's going to be ugly).

ETA: You can run radial tires on the Deuce rims, just make sure you get radial-rated tubes to match...any good commercial truck tire store will be able to help you with these. 11.00x20 & 12.50x20 radials fit on the Deuce wheels and according to members who have switched to them, they make quite a positive difference in ride & handling.

Stock 9.00x20 bias-ply tires/tubes are plentiful in most parts of the country, especially if you don't mind making a road trip to pick some up.
 
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Deuceshigh

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Correct; I have 11.00x20 on Deuce rims for my 2 parts trucks...when I purchased my Deuce, it had some Goodyear 11.00x20 tires on it, they're very nice. The steering is MUCH easier with the smaller, lighter tires. It's not so bad once you're rolling, but trying to turn while stopped is a serious workout (and I keep hitting my left elbow on the top of the driver's door, one of these days it's going to be ugly).

ETA: You can run radial tires on the Deuce rims, just make sure you get radial-rated tubes to match...any good commercial truck tire store will be able to help you with these. 11.00x20 & 12.50x20 radials fit on the Deuce wheels and according to members who have switched to them, they make quite a positive difference in ride & handling.

Stock 9.00x20 bias-ply tires/tubes are plentiful in most parts of the country, especially if you don't mind making a road trip to pick some up.
How well do they help braking? My biggest issue with a deuce (when I get one) is really going to be braking. I can deal with no power steering (Im far from dainty). But when I want to stop, I want to STOP. I imagine retrofitting some bigger heavier brakes may help me out quite a bit.
 

Clay James

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How well do they help braking? My biggest issue with a deuce (when I get one) is really going to be braking. I can deal with no power steering (Im far from dainty). But when I want to stop, I want to STOP. I imagine retrofitting some bigger heavier brakes may help me out quite a bit.
Dual circuit brakes are the best upgrade for safety sake. The stock brakes are more than enough to stop a deuce. I have 11.00x20 radials on my 109 and haven't noticed any difference in braking.
 
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Deuceshigh

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Dual circuit brakes are the best upgrade for safety sake. The stock brakes are more than enough to stop a deuce. I have 11.00x20 radials on my 109 and haven't noticed any difference in braking.
Thats good to know. I was planning on converting to dual circuit brakes any way. Would running two master cylinders with each connected to one of the steering tires and the opposite side rear tires (not the actual tires, but that tires brake) work best? I feel it would be easier to set one master cylinder per side, but if I braked I would drift one way or the other and this would reduce the drift somewhat.
 
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