I've been DERAILED (removing rail from under bed)

The 1078 I am purchasing the PO told me he lowered the bed by 14". Will get pictures next week (PO out of town) and will hopefully be picking it up then on Fri.

Anyway....... I asked him about bed in how it lowered it. Did not understand at first when he said he removed the "Rails" as a large part of that 14" drop. Now I think I get it. The Rails are the C channel that run lenght of the Chassis under the bed. Apparently on the 6x6 with 5th wheel these rails do not exist*?? but they do on the 1078. In pics below..... The other pic with out them is a 6x6 with 5thweel removed.... Note no rails on 6x6.

Just wonder if this might be an issue in strenth such as when frame gets flexed off road. Hope note; Just checked with the seller. He no longer has the rails.


underbelly shot showing the rails that run length of Chassis under the bed ona 1078. click for larger


6x6 with 5th wheel removed and NO rails click for larger





*at least not in the photo above as was brought up in another thread.

The bed rails have very little to do with main frame strength, the bed rails spread the load on the frame rails, the BED rails spread and SUPPORT THE BED, WITHOUT the bed rails the bed WILL tend to crack at the weak spots due to NO support as the truck frame rails flex. This WAS a BAD idea by the PO, WHAT other bad ideas the PO did to the truck that he has not told you about, REMEMBER the bed rails WOULD NOT be there if they were not needed with about 20 DOCUMENTED reasons to back up that NEED. (I can come up with at least 5)

Due to this MAJOR MODIFICATION, I would NOT buy the truck UNLESS it was SO CHEAP that someone could not pass it up, because if he did this mod, what OTHER did this TRUCK and FRAME ENGINEER do ?????. There ARE a LOT m1078s out there for sale that have not had the bed butchered.

73m819 said:

The bed rails have very little to do with main frame strength, the bed rails spread the load on the frame rails, the BED rails spread and SUPPORT THE BED, WITHOUT the bed rails the bed WILL tend to crack at the weak spots due to NO support as the truck frame rails flex. This WAS a BAD idea by the PO, WHAT other bad ideas the PO did to the truck that he has not told you about, REMEMBER the bed rails WOULD NOT be there if they were not needed with about 20 DOCUMENTED reasons to back up that NEED. (I can come up with at least 5)

Due to this MAJOR MODIFICATION, I would NOT buy the truck UNLESS it was SO CHEAP that someone could not pass it up, because if he did this mod, what OTHER did this TRUCK and FRAME ENGINEER do ?????. There ARE a LOT m1078s out there for sale that have not had the bed butchered.

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The seller is a certified Machinist and Welder. Not sure what that all entails though. Was considering this one cause; it's a running truck with 99% tread tires, and been driven 500+ miles already thus most all bugs are worked out AND as you brought up...... $$$ it's running many thousand dollars cheaper than all the other ones on Craigslist, ebay etc. He's selling it cause he is moving across to other side of country due to work.

so the rails stiffen chassis to limit flex so to nut crack bed?

coachgeo said:

The seller is a certified Machinist and Welder. Not sure what that all entails though. That and this truck is running many thousand dollars cheaper than all the other ones (besides ones in auction from Gov.) He's selling it cause he is moving across to other side of country due to work.

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I'd check to see if we welded anything to the frame. If he did then id pass as the frame is made from heat treated steel.

scottmandu said:

I'd check to see if we welded anything to the frame. If he did then id pass as the frame is made from heat treated steel.

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We are on same wave length. Just texted him same question. No welding done to frame. Both the Bed and the ROP he made are bolted on.

coachgeo said:

The seller is a certified Machinist and Welder. Not sure what that all entails though.

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In this case NOTHING, because dropping the bed rails has NOTHING to do with machining or welding, has NOTHING to do the the mechanics of frame and bed flex, has has NOTHING to do with the MANY ENGINEERING REASONS that the bed has bed rails. REMEMBER that EVERY item on that has reason for being there, that being said, every item on that truck costs $ and if a item was NOT REQUIRED to on the truck with a DOCUMENTED NEED, it WOULD NOT BE THERE because of the cost.

I stand by me "DO NOT BUY" statement"

73m819 said:

In this case NOTHING, because dropping the bed rails has NOTHING to do with machining or welding, has NOTHING to do the the mechanics of frame and bed flex, has has NOTHING to do with the MANY ENGINEERING REASONS that the bed has bed rails. REMEMBER that EVERY item on that has reason for being there, that being said, every item on that truck costs $ and if a item was NOT REQUIRED to on the truck with a DOCUMENTED NEED, it WOULD NOT BE THERE because of the cost.

I stand by me "DO NOT BUY" statement"

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Thanks for you input and will consider. Back to my other question. Does the removed rail essentially stiffen the chassis so not to crack the bed under chassis flex? This seems to be what is being pointed at here. Ignoring for a moment that seller may have done other things questionable. An inspection I plan to do will point those out.

If that is the only issue..... got some ideas to deal with this issue. Such as going to a flex point mount like used on a Unimog bed, or the type Mogs use on Box mounts. Both designs allows for movement of chassis under what is mounted above it. They also would be considerably lighter in total weight than the two long rails that were removed.

Bed rails DO NOT stiffen the truck frame, they STIFFEN the BED so the truck frame as it flexes, the bed does not crack at the weak points, the bed rails SUPPORT the bed load weight, spreading it on the truck frame, the bed rails supply heigth so he bed dies NOT contract the tires under conditions that the truck is designed to operate in, there is more reasons for for bed rails, these ARE just for starters.

Just BECAUSE someone thinks a idea is a good one and sells it as such, DOES NOT make it a "good idea". Do as you want, your $$$, you asked for a opinion, you got it with reasons to support it.

73m819 said:

Bed rails DO NOT stiffen the truck frame, they STIFFEN the BED so the truck frame as it flexes, the bed does not crack at the weak points, the bed rails SUPPORT the bed load weight, spreading it on the truck frame, the bed rails supply heigth so he bed dies NOT contract the tires under conditions that the truck is designed to operate in, there is more reasons for for bed rails, these ARE just for starters.
Just BECAUSE someone thinks a idea is a good one and sells it as such, DOES NOT make it a "good idea". Do as you want, your $$$, you asked for a opinion, you got it with reasons to support it.

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Again much thanks for input. I greatly value your educated Opinion. I am taking it into consideration. Just it's that Im a glass half full guy and don't like to assume someone is not educated enough and has FUBARED things. Just maybe he does know a thing or two. Your input will help me inspect things to see if that is the case thus make a good decision.

with that in mind I did question him about clearance issues under flex when he first told me he had lowered the bed. Was told he put wheel wells inside the bed just for this reason. So yes it is no longer a completely flat bed. His intentions originally was to remove bed eventually and build a box. Bed as is now was only going to carry what one might put in a long utility trailer on a run to Lowes etc.

What are other reasons the rails are there? What are the weak points you mention? Center is usually weakest point. He may have covered some of those as well.

Taking 14" out you most likely will have tires hitting the bed when off-road.

porkysplace said:

Taking 14" out you most likely will have tires hitting the bed when off-road.

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Yep, you must have missed the mention in previous post that wheel wells have been installed in the bed to cover that issue. It's no longer a flat bed per say

coachgeo said:

Yep, you must have missed the mention in previous post that wheel wells have been installed in the bed to cover that issue. It's no longer a flat bed per say

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Yep missed that

coachgeo said:

We are on same wave length. Just texted him same question. No welding done to frame. Both the Bed and the ROP he made are bolted on.

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I wouldn't worry too much about it then. However the big benefit of the LMTV is the ability to put two pallets side by side and 3-4 deep. With a bed that low the wheel wells will get in the way but that's just me. I've considered moving the bed lower as well but figured I could only drop is about 6-8 inches before the cargo space is lost.

scottmandu said:

I wouldn't worry too much about it then. However the big benefit of the LMTV is the ability to put two pallets side by side and 3-4 deep. With a bed that low the wheel wells will get in the way but that's just me. I've considered moving the bed lower as well but figured I could only drop is about 6-8 inches before the cargo space is lost.

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Makes since. Seller intended it to be used in the field for Pipe fitting and other welding jobs. He wanted it easier to get things into and out of bed. Guess mostly he would have carried long pipe and welding supplies.

I see you have Mog. are you at Benzworld also for Mog related stuff?

coachgeo said:

Makes since. Seller intended it to be used in the field for Pipe fitting and other welding jobs. He wanted it easier to get things into and out of bed. Guess mostly he would have carried long pipe and welding supplies.

I see you have Mog. are you at Benzworld also for Mog related stuff?

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Yeah different strokes for different folks I use mine to drop freight off (amongst other things) it's unloaded/loaded with a forklift so height isn't an issue, but carrying 6-8 pallets at a time means I only have to make one trip.

73m819 said:

In this case NOTHING, because dropping the bed rails has NOTHING to do with machining or welding, has NOTHING to do the the mechanics of frame and bed flex, has has NOTHING to do with the MANY ENGINEERING REASONS that the bed has bed rails. REMEMBER that EVERY item on that has reason for being there, that being said, every item on that truck costs $ and if a item was NOT REQUIRED to on the truck with a DOCUMENTED NEED, it WOULD NOT BE THERE because of the cost.

I stand by me "DO NOT BUY" statement"

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I agree on this one.

Coachgeo, did you buy this truck for next to nothing? How much are you supposed to pay for it?

Lmtv772 said:

....Coachgeo, did you buy this truck for next to nothing? How much are you supposed to pay for it?

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8500$ w/fast axles installed.

Before axle upgrade; Stock mid 1990's 1078's I've seen on Craigslist are $12000 to $15000. Ebay same and more. Govt. Auctions less but I trust the govt. auction descriptions of good and bad about a vehicle less than I do an individual.

He drove it 1200 miles to his home from where he purchased it in a Govt. auction.

Seems that besides bed changes and removing spare tire mechanism/storage to make room for bolting on a ROP* he built for it, nothing else that involves structure has been done. To pay someone to build a ROP is in itself a big chunk of change. Min. 500$

Also he's willing to drive it 400 miles on his dime to his Indiana Job site reducing my having to drive 800miles to his place in order to look at /return with. Drops it down to 400miles for me. Huge savings in Fuel. Also, means I don't have to take time off work. Time of work for me is money lost. Means I can take a buddy with me to drive car back, saving me from renting a car, getting a hotel etc.

The willingness to drive it to IN in combination of his having driven it on a 1200 miles trip before, hints to me that it is in good mechanical condition. That is more info than what you get from an auction usually.

I'll get more pics when he returns from a Job in FL. So will see.

*ROP= Roll Over Protection AKA Roll Bar, or what he calls a Headache Rack. All the tire lift mechanism parts are included in sale.

Another reason for the extra height was so it was the same height as the 6x6's. They have to sit higher because of the stuff that's installed under the bed. See logistically it would be a pain in the but to make loading ramps of different heights for different trucks in a war zone. So to simplify things all the fmtv tucks and trailers have the same height.

I would buy that truck in a heartbeat. Besides the wrecker, van and 5th wheel all don't have it. Personally I wouldn't have messed the flat bed up with fender wells , instead I would have added bigger bump stops.

DiverDarrell said:

Another reason for the extra height was so it was the same height as the 6x6's. They have to sit higher because of the stuff that's installed under the bed. See logistically it would be a pain in the but to make loading ramps of different heights for different trucks in a war zone. So to simplify things all the fmtv tucks and trailers have the same height.

I would buy that truck in a heartbeat. Besides the wrecker, van and 5th wheel all don't have it. Personally I wouldn't have messed the flat bed up with fender wells , instead I would have added bigger bump stops.

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DiverDarrell, do you own a FMTV or just generators?

coachgeo said:

8500$

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coachgeo said:

w/fast axles installed.

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To me there is something very fishy with this deal, if he really is willing to sell it so much under value. Why would he sell it for $4.000 less than what he could get without the faster diffs? There is a reason why you are the only one who is willing to fork out money for it.