Ether Start Kit on Ebay

either starting........

I have been driving heavy diesels for 30 years....retired from the teamsters..worked for a Chicago company where is does get cold.. K & R Delivery,if you are old enough and from Chicagoland.you may recognize the name......the reason it says to inject the either "while cranking" is because if you inject the either before hitting the starter it can suck to much either into one cylinder and pre-ignite on the compression stroke and kick backwards, which can do serious damage,,, from breaking teeth off the ring gear, to bending a connecting rod...not good,or if you're lucky just turn everything backwards in a big grinding hickup..instantly changing the direction of the engine and starter rotation...talk about G force....., don't do it....hit the starter, then give it a shot of either, and not much,just a half second or so,,,you will get the feel of it...this way the either is sprayed into a moving flow of air, and does not all go into one cylinder. Either in that tank is in liquid form, and when it is released, especially in cold weather, comes out as partly liquid, then boils to a vapor in the lower pressure, so you need movement of air to dilute the mixture so that is helps ignite the diesel fuel and doesn't just plain EXPLODE....Now the secret to starting a diesel in cold weather is 2 fold.....batteries at 10 degrees F have only 15% of the power that they have at 60 degrees..and the diesel ignites from compression HEAT, so in cold must be cranked faster than in warm weather,,,..so the heat blanket under the batteries is just about as important as the either....in fact, we did not hardly ever use the either....we plugged in the engine to 110vac...a block heater and a small battery charger...the block heater heats the oil or the coolant (depending on the kind you choose) we used the oil heater, and a small 2 to 6 amp battery charger, both permanently mounted and wired into the truck...plug in one cord to turn them on....the charger kept the batteries charged which creates heat in the battery...In the winter of 85 or 86 it got down to 28 degrees below Zero in Illinois,, 4 days before Christmas,,,,we did not have one starting failure or freezeup...if you only run your duece once a week or two , you shouldn;t keep it plugged in all the time.....but plug it in 24 hours before you want to start it in cold weather and it will go....

We had the same system on our 900 series five tons in the early 90's. The bottle is the same as an old style propane cylinder. I think it is 1 inch. While I was still active duty I had one find it's way into the tool box of my ranger. I took an old propane torch and removed the nozzle and used it to start stuff that way. These are the same bottles that we used on the five tons. They were orange too and I think they were because the military propane cylinders were blue. I will check with my parts plus.

I just found out after testing my flame starter that it is leaking diesel directly on my turbo when activated. If I can't get it stop leaking I might have to give this company a try. I don't mind keeping a spare tank around anyways. Where I live though I will seldom need it though.

red devils deuce - where do you get the ether bottles for $10.45?

I think from the company that makes the kit, Lee. Quickstart. Are they not on their site? Of course shipping and hazmat will drive the cost up.

GREAT info/explanation BRADMACHINE, on the cold starting.

Chuck, what do you think would happen if a propane cylinder was used in place of the ether bottle? I'm sure someone has tried it...

Local Kit

Just bought a unit for the new truck this morning. Most of the flame heater parts were removed so I thought that an ether kit would be the way to go. Cost $80+/- without can. This is for a cable unit with the nozzle. Be sure that the e-bay kits include the nozzle, tubing and the cable! All of these kits only give a single metered shot when the cable is pulled and released or the electric button is pushed and released. Bottles are available from our larger local auto/truck supply houses. Nozzle placement is somewhat critical as is the type of nozzle, one hole, two hole and hole size. Will try to install this weekend.

RE: Local Kit

Quick Start Products & Solutions inc http://www.quickstart-ether.com/index.php

Armada said:

I think from the company that makes the kit, Lee. Quickstart. Are they not on their site? Of course shipping and hazmat will drive the cost up.

GREAT info/explanation BRADMACHINE, on the cold starting.

Chuck, what do you think would happen if a propane cylinder was used in place of the ether bottle? I'm sure someone has tried it...

Click to expand...

I never have and have no knowledge of any type of accident. I think it would be more eventful if someone used one of the ether bottles for a propane torch. That would make for great TV for sure.

OK folks, I am going to post a lot of info here on the Deuce Ether Start System. You may need to read this a few times before it all soaks in.

I picked up a spare ether cylinder at my local "Parts Plus" auto parts store. I took the old cylinder off of my truck to match it up, as they do come in several sizes. Surprisingly, my old cylinder felt to be about 1/3 full. It also leaked slightly, which helped to explain #1. Why it was wrenched on so tight (I had to use a small strap type oil filter wrench and vise grips to remove it and later reinstall it), and #2. Why I felt so sleepy driving to and from the auto parts store while ordering my spare cylinder. Fortunately, I did not succumb to the urge to light up a cigarette either going to or returning from the auto parts store, otherwise I might not have been here to post this message.

The new cylinder cost me $24 and some change. Not as cheap as the $10.45 quoted on one web site, but unless I wanted to order a full case, the $22 - $26 Hazmat charge would have been a killer. As near as we could figure, my cylinder was a 7/8" thread, 18 oz cylinder. They also come in 1" thread and 21 oz in either thread size, but the 7/8" thread 18 oz cylinder seemed to be a match for my existing cylinder.

While my ether cylinder is nearly exactly the same size as a standard "tall" propane cylinder, trying to use propane in place of the ether will NOT improve starting in cold weather. The autoignition temperature of #2 diesel fuel (i.e., the temperature that the engine cylinder must reach during the compression cycle in order to self-ignite the diesel fuel) is approximately 257 degrees C. The autoignition temperature of Propane is 500 degrees C; the autoignition temperature of ether is 170 degrees C. Thus, an ether start system will, in theory at least, improve diesel starting by about 85 degrees C, or about 157 degrees F. I doubt any amount of ether is going to start a multifuel at -137F by itself, but at least it sounds good!

While I do not know the what temperatures the LDT465 combustion chamber reaches during cranking, at 20F the chamber temperature must reach somewheres in the range of 257C or about 495F, since that is the temperature it takes to auto-ignite diesel fuel, and most LDT465 engines will start at 20F without any starting aids.

The "new" ether cylinder I bought contains approximately 18 oz of ether, which according to the label, is good for about 200 injections. Thus it must take only a very small amount of ether to "kick" the diesel fuel to ignition. To put his in perspective, 18 oz divided by 200 injections is only 0.09 fluid oz, or about 2.66 ml of ether. This equates to less than 1/2 ml of ether per cylinder, which is a very small amount.

As an experiment, I disconnected the ether line from my intake manifold, placed the ether line into a small glass of water, and cycled the ether start system. Each time I cycled the system, I noticed only a dozen or so small bubbles of ether bubbling up through the water. I also cycled the system with the ether line next to my nose and noticed only a very slight ether odor from the ether line. Assuming my ether start system is working properly, only a very tiny quantity of ether is necessary to start the engine using the ether start system.

Interestingly, the wires connecting to the ether system solenoid are marked "55" and "GND". I cannot find a wire #55 on my Deuce wiring diagram, but it is only powered when the accessory/ignition switch is powered "ON". The wire marked "GND" goes to a thermostatic switch at the front of the intake manifold. This switch, which I originally (and erroneously) assumed to be my temperature gauge thermostat has only two connections. One wire goes to the "GND" terminal of the ether start system, the other wire goes to a chassis ground. Obviously, this is a "safety" switch allowing the ether start system to operate only when the engine coolant falls below some predetermined level.

Although I have not actually needed to use my ether start system yet (the coldest I have tried to start the Deuce yet was about 15F, and is started with about 5 seconds of cranking without using the ether system), I am anxiously awaiting some really cold weather to see how well the ether start system works!

For those of you using CUCVs, M1008s, M1009s etc., note the warning on the back of the cannister: "IMPORTANT: GLOW PLUGS MUST BE DISCONNECTED" (when using ether)!!!!

Picture 1 shows the ether start system as installed on my Deuce.
Picture 2 is my (new) spare cylinder installed in the existing mount next to the radiator.
Picture 3 is the ether start system "safety thermostat".
Picture 4 is the dash panel plate describing the use of the ether start system.
Picture 5 is the front label of the new ether cannister
Picture 6 is the rear label of the new ether cannister

55 is the flame heater hot wire I just got done finding this all out.

Does anyone have the actual QuickStart kit number that retrofits the flame starter to the ether? The NSN might work too. I talked to Tammy there and she seamed a little sketchy on the right number.

I actually have a brand new in the box GI NOS ether start conversion kit made by Hercules. Same kit as shown in my photos, with the ether start instruction plate that replaces the flame heater plate. As soon as I get a few good pics I'll list it on Ebay.

What is the NSN on the Hercules kit? Isn't the NSN designate the kit, and does not matter which manufacturer?

The box is a little shopworn but was still factory sealed when I opened it. All the parts are brand new in perfect condition, and exactly match the parts installed on my 1970 Deuce. There is no NSN on the box, just Hercules and Quickstart part numbers.

my new quick start kit is part# QK-2050-D92 so looks good.

Funny Jed.... thats the same # shown in Lee's picture....

pointing out it has not changed in the last who knows how many years.

Jed - What did you have to pay Quick start for the kit?

I ordered it today. The price at Quickstart QK-2050-D92 is $125.60 plus shipping. That is without the ether bottle, but is the kit that is made to retrofit the M35 with and existing flame starter system. They can sell the bottles for $21.20 each, but they only ship in quantities of 12 due to the hazmat shipping boxes they use. They do provide contacts for distributors that will sell smaller quantities. Oh and the bottle thread size is 1"x 20.

I got a bottle from them hhmmm.