• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Any electricians out there?? 120/240 Circuits Question

Waukesha

Member
77
31
18
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I have a distinct hatred for AFCI. They tend to be more of a nuisance than anything else. But ya gotta pass the inspection. Luckily my place was built in 71 so no AFCI.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Exactly. I had the panel replaced on my 2003 house, and in doing so had to be brought up to code. I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Although I will say... As soon as my panel was replaced every time I'd turn on the lights in one of the bedrooms the circuit breaker would trip. I assumed it was a bad CB. Turns out the yahoo who lived here before me wired the fan wrong. Took a little investigation to find that.
 

Scoobyshep

Well-known member
1,081
1,371
113
Location
Florida
Exactly. I had the panel replaced on my 2003 house, and in doing so had to be brought up to code. I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Although I will say... As soon as my panel was replaced every time I'd turn on the lights in one of the bedrooms the circuit breaker would trip. I assumed it was a bad CB. Turns out the yahoo who lived here before me wired the fan wrong. Took a little investigation to find that.
in the early days of AFCI ceiling fans and vacuum cleaners would set them off all the time. It would only take a few middle of the night wakeups due to lack of fan to send the AFCI breakers packing.
 

wheelspinner

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,748
1,519
113
Location
North Carolina - FINALLY !
Thanks, DiselAddict. Based on this article you posed (http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com/42+Circuit+Rule), it says " For example you could have a 240v circuit, that is just one circuit but has two pole positions." that leads me to believe that 240v = 1 circuit (out of my 40 max) Do you interpret it that same?
No. You have 40 poles. Period. Circuits are not poles. You are getting way sideways here. You can use the 40 poles however (within reason) I.e. double circuit piggyback breakers etc.
 

tobyS

Well-known member
4,832
833
113
Location
IN
Sorry, I'm not up on the latest requirement for AFCI. How about a front view of your new panel?

It really doesn't matter in this case, I would move the AFCI to the new box or go to the space that is not AFCI and put in tandems. As far as I know, tandems do not come in GFI or AFCI.
 

Waukesha

Member
77
31
18
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Sorry, I'm not up on the latest requirement for AFCI. How about a front view of your new panel?

It really doesn't matter in this case, I would move the AFCI to the new box or go to the space that is not AFCI and put in tandems. As far as I know, tandems do not come in GFI or AFCI.
I agree. That's my plan.

Now I'm just trying to decide if I'm able to punch out a hole in the upper right hand side of the panel and run a straight conduit over to the sub panel. I could possibly go up through the hub (which is currently unused) but I like the straight shot better, if possible.

Thoughts?
Sub_Panel_Location.jpg
 
Last edited:

tobyS

Well-known member
4,832
833
113
Location
IN
It appears to be okay location but those incoming lines are too close to work safely. The left side is less crowded.

Being licensed, I break the seal on the meter, remove it and make sure it's open, install the conduit and wires and then put it back in place....then inform the utility what I did (why seal is broken).

But I have no idea about your electric company policy....they generally will turn off and on for you if it's legal for your area as owner, giving you an hour or two.
 

TechnoWeenie

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,653
1,669
113
Location
Nova Laboratories, WA
I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Friend of mine bought a house made in the 70s. In the inspection process, the inspector noted that the panel, and the breakers, were all older and had an active recall on them, caused quite a few fires over the years, apparently. $3500 to replace the panel and wire it, and add the required mains shutoff, which had to be a separate panel.. and a 3rd panel for something or other that required it's own box to bring up to current code (I think it might have been the hot tub?)

Guy got all the work done in a day. Only about $500 of that was labor. The parts list was $$$$$$. She only paid half, but still.... I remember something stupid, like she only had 100A service, but they required 200A panel or some crap like that.
 
Last edited:

Waukesha

Member
77
31
18
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
It appears to be okay location but those incoming lines are too close to work safely. The left side is less crowded.

Being licensed, I break the seal on the meter, remove it and make sure it's open, install the conduit and wires and then put it back in place....then inform the utility what I did (why seal is broken).

But I have no idea about your electric company policy....they generally will turn off and on for you if it's legal for your area as owner, giving you an hour or two.
Thanks, Toby. The location to the right of the meter is the only place on the wall available. I think there's enough room on the right to get my punch set in there, but I see your point. Being visible from the road, I'm trying to minimize my conduit runs, its already pretty ugly...

Are you suggesting something more like this? 360* of bends seems like a PIA with 4 gauge copper..

Location_2.jpg

Here is the top of the panel for your reference

Top of Panel.jpg
 

Attachments

Scoobyshep

Well-known member
1,081
1,371
113
Location
Florida
I agree. That's my plan.

Now I'm just trying to decide if I'm able to punch out a hole in the upper right hand side of the panel and run a straight conduit over to the sub panel. I could possibly go up through the hub (which is currently unused) but I like the straight shot better, if possible.

Thoughts?
View attachment 831220
Yes you can put a conduit there, just be careful drilling .
 

tobyS

Well-known member
4,832
833
113
Location
IN
I don't work anything hot and don't recommend it to anyone.
Black silicone is good. Put a big bead across the tops of all the boxes.

When you move the aluminum wire out of the way while you drill and punch (or hole saw), the main lugs will all need re-torqued as they will likely be loose from moving the wires around.
 
Last edited:

Waukesha

Member
77
31
18
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I don't work anything hot and don't recommend it to anyone.
Black silicone is good. Put a big bead across the tops of all the boxes.

When you move the aluminum wire out of the way while you drill and punch (or hole saw), the main lugs will all need re-torqued as they will likely be loose from moving the wires around.
Thanks, Toby.

I ended up thinking outside the box and moving some of the conduit routed below the panel, and ran it that way. Appreciate your help!

Update.jpg
 

Scoobyshep

Well-known member
1,081
1,371
113
Location
Florida
Thanks, Toby.

I ended up thinking outside the box and moving some of the conduit routed below the panel, and ran it that way. Appreciate your help!

View attachment 831971
Not bad.

Little hint for future reference, If you need an LB (or LL/LR) and arent sure which to order. hold the fitting like a pistol LL for left and LR for right. For your install a LL might have been easier.
 

tobyS

Well-known member
4,832
833
113
Location
IN
Fine mount. Water does not go up and you probably used a knock out hole, so didn't have to disturb too much wiring. Still, do what you can to put a seal at the top so water does not find the mounting holes.

What did you end up with for the branch breaker?
 

Waukesha

Member
77
31
18
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Not bad.

Little hint for future reference, If you need an LB (or LL/LR) and arent sure which to order. hold the fitting like a pistol LL for left and LR for right. For your install a LL might have been easier.
Agreed, that it how it should be done. I had to go to 3-4 different stores just to get the PVC that I did. For some reason, supply is tight in the Houston area.
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks