Starter / Starter Relay

[cosmobius]

Well, it happened. i was away from home without tools when i started the truck and heard what sounded like the starter still cranking. I turned off the ignition and it was still running! With no one around to borrow tools from and not knowing about the starter relay under the dash, i raced home about 3 miles. I called my wife to have my socket set in the driveway waiting for me. When i got home, the starter had stopped running and the tell tale smell of fried electrical parts was heavy in the air. She was smoked.

I yanked the relay (smoked), and the starter (smoked). The starter's teeth were worn down on the outer edge (toward the flywheel). what would be the cause of this? The starter was a gear reduction starter with no shims and was not attached to a bracket. The two bolts were all that held it in place. Could the teeth have been worn like this due to there being no shims or is it likely that it happened when i drove it home with the starter running?

The truck is an 87 1028 and the TM states that trucks newer than 86 (if i remember right) may not need shims. Is it because they started using the gear reduction starters?

I have ordered a new HEAVY DUTY relay to replace the old one. I tried finding the SME relay Doghead wrote about and had a hard time finding the exact number but the one i bought has a similar rating. hopefully it fits ok. I will provide an update when i have installed it.

 

[Warthog]

The factory starter relay is a BIG weak spot on the CUCVs. GM even put out a service bullitin covering it. There are mulitple ways of doing the "Doghead Starter Relay" replacement. They all involve replacing the relay with a heavy duty relay.

The starters require the support bracket inorder for the bendix to engage the flywheel properly.

The only true way to know if your truck needs shims for the starte is to remove the flywheel cover and follow the Tech Manual instructions to check for the proper distance between the bendix and the flywheel starter ring.

The starter may or maynot have the words "No Shim" cast into the solenoid housing.

Here is a recent post about the No Shim starters

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/49893-dumb-newbie-starter-question.html

 

[cosmobius]

Thanks Warthog!

I am confused about the bracket. the starter i removed did not have a place to attach it to the bracket so the previous mechanic zip-tied it up and out of the way. Have you seen starters for these trucks with no means for attatching the bracket to the back?

 

[cosmobius]

ok i am an idiot. the old starter did have a small bolt hole in it but it did not match up to the hole in the starter bracket. further research led me to understand that my reduction drive starter requires a different bracket. the person who replaced the starter the last time either didnt have the proper bracket or was too lazy to replace it so they tied it up and out of the way. I suppose i should feel lucky that the starter bolts were not sheared off. Anyway, i called to order the proper bracket from a local dealership (60 miles away) and he said it has been discontinued. a second dealership said they could order one but they are even further from me. Is the first guy or the second guy the idiot? i dont want to travel 60 miles just to find out that he ordered the wrong part.

 

[Shop Rat Fab]

Pay the dealer to ship you the part. Wrong part or not save gas money and time.

 

[Warthog]

I have ordered from www.gmpartsdirect.com before. Shipping is a little high.

The gear reduction bracket is 23502557 - $15.28 list
The direct drive bracket is 14028931 - $3.32 list
The Starter bolts - 15544950 - $2.80 ea (must buy a box of 5)
The bolt for the braket to block - 14060613 which is a M8 x 1.25 x 20

All are available except for the block bolt. With the cheap prices your dealer may not want to deal with it.

Gear reduction on the left, direct drive on the right

 

[cosmobius]

thanks for the help. i have ordered the bracket.

now back to the relay. i scrounged up a (new) starter solenoid from a bronco. it appears similar in appearance to the SME relay that doghead used but it is different. there are two small posts and two large posts like dogheads but the internal circuit is not the same. i assumed that the small posts were for ignition and ground wires but it turned out i was incorrect. after energizing the thing six different ways off of the battery without hearing the contacts close, i was about to declare it defective. then, i did something experimental. it turns out that this particular solenoid has some kind of auxiliary post which does nothing for our purpose. there is one post to energize the coil but the other side of the coil goes to the metal frame of the relay so you need to connect pos to one of the small posts and neg to metal base. whatdyall think about using this for the starter relay and connecting the black wire to the bolt that attaches the relay to the angled bracket under the dash? It seems to be PLENTY beefy and i am sure that it will handle whatever load it gets from the starter circuit.

Is it worth considering installing a diode when using a larger relay as someone in another thread advised?

 

[Wolf.Dose]

The old starter for the 6.2 l Diesel is not made any more and not rebuilt anymore as far as we talk about 24 Volts. You can get parts, if they still order them, at f.e. Mills Fleet Farm, where they have the books and the reference numbers (I saw it this week, so do not argue with me about that). Normally you get the replacement parts ( I asked, if not in stock they will order it. Supply is bejond their controll, at least it is in the books!). The replacement is the starter of the 6.5 l Diesel in 24 V, which is considered to be more reliable.
So If you have a 12 V system in a CUCV, someone did a modification. If the 12 V stuff is still available, I do not know. 24 V cranks more powerfull anyway.
Wolf

 

[etech]

thanks for this thread. it really helped me.. Im having starting issues as well but think I can figure it out and thanks for the bracket part numbers.

 

[Fredenstien67]

Ive been driving my M1008 daily for almost a year now. Ive had my starter rebuilt about 4 times and also tried a gear reduction starter but that one runs away every time I try it. Ive installed the Doghead relay which helped the first time and a new ignition about 8 months ago. Until recently my original starter never ran away on me. Last week it ran away and fried itself i had it rebuilt reinstalled it i got about three cranks on it (that werent smooth) and it ran away again. Thats where I am now I installed a new doghead relay today but that didnt work every time I connect the positive terminal it just starts cranking.

Im out of ideas im thinking of converting it to 12 volt but then no one on this website will ever talk to me again lol or buy it. I love my tuck its a great plow truck and fun pulling my brother out of the mud Awesome day. butt I still have to get to work everyday. Thanks for reading.

 

[M1008driver]

You've had so many starter problems I would be worried about the flexplate. I used a gear reduction starter and GM brace (bracket you can get from the dealer), and a pioneer flexplate from Autozone. I also did the doghead mod first thing as I have read all the horror stories here. I used no shims as they did not have any on my truck. They say if you have them use them and if not, don't.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/61729-6-2-starter-bolt-info.html

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