1963 404 Unimog, Should i keep it?

I have a 1963 404 Unimog at my shop that I traded in on some work i did. it is all original and has the gas 6 cyl. in it. The top is in great shape. The troop seats are still in the back along with what looks like an original pick under the truck in the tool rack. The only major problem it has is the clutch disc is rusted to the flywheel. has anyone ever had this problem? If so how hard was it to get too? I have too many toys and I need to decide if I want to keep it or sell it. I'll try to get some pics. by the first of next week. thanks in advance for any input.

From the limited knowledge that I have of Unimogs, Ive heard that clutch work is a huge PITA. Also,

If its in pretty good shape mechanically and body-wise, you might as well fix the clutch and wheel that sucker, if youve got the room to store it. I vote for keep it, or alternatively, you could give it to me lol.

Old IH TD crawlers are notorious for this.

Put it in low/low and drive into an immovable object, say a tree with the pedal depressed.

Should pop loose, that or climb the tree.

Be ready to shut it off.

Are you sure it's disengaging?

Pix please!

The 404s have torque tube drivelines like an early Ford. That means you have to drop an axle and the driveline to seperate things in order to even start pulling the trans/transfer case (all one unit). I don't remember where the motor mounts are but on some Unimog maintenance jobs it's easier to pull the engine or the cab, leaving the drive train intact. Doing a search on some of the Unimog sites may tell you exactly what you need to know.

Not sure how much you and your boss are into this thing but it shouldn't be hard to find it a home if you don't want to mess with it.

you have to pull the cab and engine to do the clutch on a 404. you should give it to me and save yourself thet trouble of fixing that clutch

Keep it!

I would say... keep the Mog!
To repair the clutch you have to move the cab, but that´s no big thing!
After the cap is gone it is easy to work on the Mog.
Don´t try to loosen the clutch by driving to a tree or what else. Even if the clutch will be loose after that you have to change to a new one... sooner or later when you disengage the clutch some of the levers will brake away... and the flywheel also suffers!
For my understanding original Unimog S404 are very rare in the USA.
How long the Mog was not moving? Are all the axles dry or leaky? After a few years without movement all the seals in the axles are going to be very hard and leaking. To change them is alot of work and can be done only with special tools...

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If you need any information or manuals for the 404 let me know, I have alot, but of course they are in German, but with lots of pics and they might be helpful...

Anyway... driving a Mog offroad is much fun!

How much will it cost you? If you can afford it KEEP IT!

I had a 404S Funkwagen or radio-truck a few years back. I swapped the bed for a cargo bed and had a blast with it. They are geared like tractors, so don't expect to go drag racing. They also have portal axles and front and rear lockers so they will off-road in stock form like nothing else I have driven. I never messed with my clutch. There were 2 schools of thought when I owned my Mog. One group believed in pulling the cab and the other believed in sliding the rear axle assembly backwards along with the rear torque tube and accessing it that way. Either way, it's not a Sunday afternoon project.

I say keep the Mog and fix it. Then, you can drive it and you'll be hooked.

Sure, keep it. These are fun trucks, much more drivable than most military vehicles. The 404's are even rated at 59 mph, a reasonable speed. But, as someone said, they are low powered so patience is required.

The stuck clutch will probably come loose if you do (partly) as suggested, start it in first gear and drive around, checking the clutch occasionally. Please don't run into the immovable object though. What happens is the clutch material will peel off the disc and you'll for sure have a repair then. The normal clutch disc has typical friction material, but behind/under the friction material is a flat metallic spring, making the clutch very pleasurable to drive, but also making them easier to peel.

If all fails trying to get the clutch disc loose, then the easiest way to change out the clutch is to pull the radiator, disconnect everything off the engine, suspend the engine on the front and rear with a spreader bar, and move the engine all the way up to the grill. That gives room to pull the TOB, clutch assembly, and pilot bearing. I'd suggest replacing those, too, when you put in a new disc (if required).

I've done this tooooo many times so if you have further questions, send me a PM if you like.

Typically these clutches are not worn out. If you can get it loose then it may serve you well for many years. The weak point in the system is the TOB gets dry, but it's even possible to grease it without taking anything off except the access covers!!

[edit. I should add that there's another type clutch disc, a semi-metallic "puck" disc, but those don't stick. There were a bunch of defective pressure plates sold as surplus, too, back in the '90's and those had some metallurgy problems that allowed the actuating levers, or pivot points on the pressure plate, to break off. That's probably not an issue on your truck unless it had a clutch repair in the past. Another 'gottcha' is if upgrading from a normal disc to a 'puck' disc, the clutch disc has to be installed backwards to the manual to prevent retaining springs from wearing from contact. Lots of little things to plan for...]

Bob

KBarrell said:

I have a 1963 404 Unimog at my shop that I traded in on some work i did. it is all original and has the gas 6 cyl. in it. The top is in great shape. The troop seats are still in the back along with what looks like an original pick under the truck in the tool rack. The only major problem it has is the clutch disc is rusted to the flywheel. has anyone ever had this problem? If so how hard was it to get too? I have too many toys and I need to decide if I want to keep it or sell it. I'll try to get some pics. by the first of next week. thanks in advance for any input.

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Info...

The clutch of the S404 doesn´t look like most of the others, it´s not a full disk, there are only 4 small linings for power transmission and they are made of sinter metal!

January 28th, 2010.

KBarrel:

If it were me, I'd either pull the cab, or remove the radiator and pull the engine forward to get at the clutch disc. Then I would inspect, free up, lube or replace as needed, and put the truck back togather. Most Swiss Unimogs have very little actual mileage on them, and most just need decayed rubber items replaced to run well. I notice your icon is a boobed M35, well, the Unimog drives better then that, and will climb over just about anything, as they are descended from a farm tractor, so they are slow. Yes, the truck will do 59 for a short period, but then you will have tranny work as all the bronze bushings will burn out. They like to go about 40-42 mph all day in high gear, and once you shoot any bugs out of them, they run just about forever. I have a 1963 Swiss S404.114 CArgo, when I got her in April 2007 she had about 10,000 miles on her, she now has 18,000 plus with only oil changes, lubes and keeping the fuel system clean (very hard here in Texas). In addition, you may want to contact Mr. Michael Smith at Unipaser in Palo Alto, Ca, as he has some information on distributor setting angles you might want to know. The factory setting causes the points and rotor to get arc burned at speeds above 35 MPH, and so they need adjusted differently from the shop manual specifications to prevent that from happening.

Having owned a Unimog, you'll never go back to civvy street for off road trucks..... I'd say keep it, you probably don't have that muchout of pocket in it.....


Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

clutch

i had a simler problem on a unimog 401 , if you remove the floor plate between the seats you will find a inspection cover , this will give you axes to the clutch ,i slackend the bolt and fitted longer ones removing presue off the plate this alowed the plate to brake free ,

OK thanks for the input i will look for this today. It would be great to get it moving under its own power. How much would a truck like this be worth?

KBarrell said:

How much would a truck like this be worth?

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Hmmm... some pics would be helpful...

I finally have some pics.

Well where are they!

PS - Only worth $10...I'll come pick it up though since I am a nice guy.

Try again!

That looks like a fairly decent Swiss 404. The "snorkel" is a nice piece, even though it isn't the full height model.

Depending on the "oily bits" I'd say $5-8000 with the major issues fixed.

February 1st, 2010.

I'd agree with SixSpeed as to the approximate value, and the "Zyclone" on the air intake can be extended to the top of the cab with a little ingenuity. I had forgotten about the access plate in the top of the tranny, and it is through there that you can work on the clutch and repack the throwout bearing. The Rocky Mountain Moggers web sit has a brief on how to repack the throwout bearing in the truck. Unfortunately, too many people denigrate the S.404.114's as against the more modern U1300Ls, but for what they are built to do, carry 1.5 tons just about anywhere, they are an excellent vehicle that often shames the rock crawlers for capability. Just remember it is a 40 year old (plus) truck, and is slower then molasses in January, butfor a farm tractor, it's really fast.....! The design is derived from a farm tractor militarized as a truck.... and what a truck it is. She'll scare you to death as to where she can climb with a load. and compared to the M35A2 and even the Hummer, she is fairly agile and more maneuverable.
I'd still vote for keeping her, and you might want to Canvak (available from Cabella's) the cab and cargo paulins to keep them waterproof.


Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan