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How much shim after 4" lift?

478
10
18
Location
Tucson AZ
Well I popped for the ord 4" lift and its NICE but now I have vibrations. I've read around and it looks like I need to shim. My question for yall is how much shim for a 4" shackle flip on a m1009?
Any help is appreciated.
image.jpg
 

Chaski

Active member
684
55
28
Location
Burney/CA
Get a protractor and see what is best for your rig. I have the ORD 2.5" shackle flip on my M1008 equivalent. I used a zero rate block cut at 3 degrees to tip the pinion back down a bit.
 

Chaski

Active member
684
55
28
Location
Burney/CA
OK, if my math is right with a 4" shackle flip you are moving the rear end of the 52" spring 8" down. That should be about 8.8 degrees... But someone else should check my math. I don't think it is practical to shim your pinion all the way back to stock as your shim would be somewhere between 5/8 and 3/4" thick on one end. You could get a zero rate and have it milled to 8 degrees. Your rear driveshaft angle is going to be pretty severe with that much lift on a M1009. You could shim it to aim the pinion at your transfer case and get a rear driveshaft with a CV at the transfer case. That would solve any driveshaft vibrations, and probably be the best solution.

As far as a protractor goes, do a search for magnetic protractor. They are pretty cheap and simple. Just place it on your pinion yoke, and then on the end of the output shaft. Ideal numbers for a conventional driveshaft are the same, as in the angle should match.
 

cucvrus

Well-known member
11,291
9,688
113
Location
Jonestown Pennsylvania
That is why I just keep all mine stock. I don't need to rethink any of the engineering that went into the original drive train design. And everything works as planned. Millions of dollars were spent designing these vehicles and for the most part it was well spent and the design was flaw less. Add a few dollars worth of modifications and that throws the million dollar design into the dumpster. That is my opinion on this. I seen a lot of nice trucks go down in value because of lift kits and exhaust modifications. Also with the ever changing vehicle code laws. The cops love to single out easy targets to cite for vague vehicle code laws. My sons M1028 is proof that I never want a lift kit. He works on it more then he drives it and is always being ticketed for something that deals with height and tire size. Not this guy.
 
478
10
18
Location
Tucson AZ
That is why I just keep all mine stock. I don't need to rethink any of the engineering that went into the original drive train design. And everything works as planned. Millions of dollars were spent designing these vehicles and for the most part it was well spent and the design was flaw less. Add a few dollars worth of modifications and that throws the million dollar design into the dumpster. That is my opinion on this. I seen a lot of nice trucks go down in value because of lift kits and exhaust modifications. Also with the ever changing vehicle code laws. The cops love to single out easy targets to cite for vague vehicle code laws. My sons M1028 is proof that I never want a lift kit. He works on it more then he drives it and is always being ticketed for something that deals with height and tire size. Not this guy.
You should save this on a word document so you can just cut and paste it into people's threads. All you'd have to do is change the term "drivetrain" out for "fuel filter" or "stater relay" or "glow plug resistor" etc. It could save you a lot of time.
 

truck1

Member
332
10
18
Location
San Anselmo,CA.
My 1028 with 4" ORD shackle flip and new front springs , all from ORD required flipping the stock wedges on the rear spring perches , and shimming the transfer case crossmember 7/8ths " where it attaches to the frame . I used flat bar and drilled it for the bolts. I had a bad vibration and after adjustment and 20,000 miles later no problem. Truck drives great. Easy fix and runs great.:mrgreen:
 
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corvette9

Member
184
3
18
Location
new haven ct
That is why I just keep all mine stock. I don't need to rethink any of the engineering that went into the original drive train design. And everything works as planned. Millions of dollars were spent designing these vehicles and for the most part it was well spent and the design was flaw less. Add a few dollars worth of modifications and that throws the million dollar design into the dumpster. That is my opinion on this. I seen a lot of nice trucks go down in value because of lift kits and exhaust modifications. Also with the ever changing vehicle code laws. The cops love to single out easy targets to cite for vague vehicle code laws. My sons M1028 is proof that I never want a lift kit. He works on it more then he drives it and is always being ticketed for something that deals with height and tire size. Not this guy.
Just my two cents. But I agree with cucvrus. Time after time over the years I have had guys with all kinds of 4x4's bring there trucks in cause the have probelms after doing a lift. I for one have never done one on any of my trucks and never will. My 1028A1 is as stock as they come and drives just fine. Along with all the Chevy trucks I'v had over the years.

Brian G.
 
478
10
18
Location
Tucson AZ
There are many ways to lift a truck that work just fine. I bought this truck as a hunting truck and it can't get to our hunting areas in its stock configuration. Now, my lift will work just fine as soon as I finish fine tuning it so, please, take it elsewhere.
 

cucvrus

Well-known member
11,291
9,688
113
Location
Jonestown Pennsylvania
I go everywhere in a stock M1009 that big lifted trucks go. The only place I don't go is thru really deep water. And the lift don't help that much anyway. The axles are still only a few inches higher then stock. If you had portal axles or independent suspension I might buy into that. But the lift kit is only an appearance thing. Besides the state inspection laws are constantly changing against suspension and tire size modifications. I had a 1942 GPW that would wheel just about anywhere. It was all stock. Wish I would have kept it but that was 35 years ago and I know a military vehicle collector has it now and it is better off then me having it back then. A lift does not change the wheeling capability that much. Sell that somewhere else. 40 years in the garage I have seen the horror of poor modifications and big tires gone bad. All I ever hear is how junk these 10 bolt GM rears are. I never had an issue with them. Everything has a breaking point.
 
478
10
18
Location
Tucson AZ
Well... you're wrong... Again. But that won't stop you from polluting my legitimate thread with your opinions about how nobody knows as much as you.
 
Last edited:

Chaski

Active member
684
55
28
Location
Burney/CA
I'm going to put a couple photos of my setup on the bottom of this reply. It isn't exactly the same, but at least it shows an option if you are going to try to keep your standard universal driveshaft.

If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket consider a CV rear driveshaft. They really are nice, you gain driveshaft clearance because your pinion is clocked up pointed right at your transfer case, and you have no vibration since the CV joint at the transfer case makes your driveshaft have a constant velocity. The stright u-joint at your pinion is clocked so that your driveshaft is inline with your pinion, also making it contant velocity, so you have zero vibrations. That being said it is kind of a money pit, because the driveshaft is a pile of cash, and you could need to swap out or modify your transfer case to get rid of the slip yoke and install a drive flange similar to what you have for your front driveshaft. Sooo, if cash comes your way you could swap in an NP205, or you could keep your 208 and make it a fixed yoke by swapping the output shaft and back half of the case with a Dodge NP208, which was found in a lot of half ton Dodge 4x4's in the 1980's. I know that is a significant cost, but really with a short rig and a lift it is the best. With the short rear driveshaft you end up with such a steep driveshaft angle that the universal joints are near or at the angle limit, possibly even binding when your axle is at full droop. Other problem is that the steeper the driveshaft angle the more it pulls the slip yoke out of the transfer case per inch of droop. Sure, you can lengthen the driveshaft, but with a flexible suspension setup with stock bumpstops you can bottom out the yoke into the transfer case. It may not be as much of as an issue as I am making it up to be, but it will if you ever decide to get a doubler transfer case setup, the transfer case would be even closer to your rear axle. I know of two guys running around in diesel blazers with 203/205 doubler setups with lift, and they both have CV rear drive shafts.


So, this is what I have. I show no mercy to my front fenders, they have been carved up with a die grinder. I run 37" tires on a 3" ish lift (2.5" shackle flip & cut zero rate blocks, with 2.5" lift springs and zero rates pushing my front axle 1" forward). This is with stock driveshafts, but is on an M1008 equivalent. So my rear driveshaft has a much easier life than yours.

The pics show what a zero rate cut to 3 degrees looks like.

Here is a shot showing the driveshaft angle. I could have turned it down a couple more degrees.
 
478
10
18
Location
Tucson AZ
Well I did some reading on other forums and found that every truck can be different and the best thing to do is to measure my own angles before buying shims. I purchased a magnetic angle finder on amazon for 11 bucks and, once it's here, I will know what size shims to purchase.

51MKAMEJ9AL._SX425_.jpg
 

98G

Former SSG
Steel Soldiers Supporter
5,922
4,070
113
Location
AZ/KS/MO/OK/NM/NE, varies by the day...
Clearly a lift and bigger tires will change approach angle and departure angle, not just ground clearance. Certainly not just cosmetic.

Just as clearly, changing just one thing on one of these trucks is just about impossible. But in 30 years the aftermarket and mod crowd should have worked out the details of just what needs to be changed to work together as a package.

As far as 4x4ing goes, AZ is quite different from CA or KY or PA or TX (been off road in all these places). Approach angle counts a lot here....

I watch with interest to see how this turns out.
 

thz71

Member
159
0
16
Location
Waverly ia.
I go everywhere in a stock M1009 that big lifted trucks go. The only place I don't go is thru really deep water. And the lift don't help that much anyway. The axles are still only a few inches higher then stock. If you had portal axles or independent suspension I might buy into that. But the lift kit is only an appearance thing. Besides the state inspection laws are constantly changing against suspension and tire size modifications. I had a 1942 GPW that would wheel just about anywhere. It was all stock. Wish I would have kept it but that was 35 years ago and I know a military vehicle collector has it now and it is better off then me having it back then. A lift does not change the wheeling capability that much. Sell that somewhere else. 40 years in the garage I have seen the horror of poor modifications and big tires gone bad. All I ever hear is how junk these 10 bolt GM rears are. I never had an issue with them. Everything has a breaking point.
You cant be serious LOL
 

cucvrus

Well-known member
11,291
9,688
113
Location
Jonestown Pennsylvania
OK I am serious. But all the lift in the world don't help when you have straight summer tread tires in the front and mud and snow in the back. You need some good aggressive tires all the way around. BFG Mud terrains KM or Good Wrangler MTR's and you are set to go. I know I have used these CUCV's as they were intended not rock climbing but up and down some rough mountain terrain and thru descent mud. I am smarter then just driving thru a mud hole or up a hill that looks like it would cause danger or damage to my vehicle or myself just for the sake of doing it. But for the most part I go everywhere else with out problems. No lift here. Just good common sense. It is not a mud bogger and never will be with the stock suspension I know that but come wheeling with us sometime. We go lots places just fine. And we don't go a lot more places which is fine also. Let someone else tear their equipment up. I opt to watch and be entertained. I am not an entertainer. I watch others entertain at their expence. And it does get expensive when things break. Been there. Learned and don't do it anymore. So LOL all day.
 
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