LDS VS LDT and the real differences

[JasonS]

Here is some interesting info on the valve timing:

LDS427-2 (from TM9-2815-204-35, dated 1964)
Intake opens at 6° BTDC
Intake closes 30° ABDC
Intake remains open 216°
Exhaust opens 36° BBDC
Exhaust closes 2° ATDC
Exhaust remains open 218°

White D5000 (White 2-155 tractor engine service manual dated 1981)
Intake opens at 5° BTDC
Intake closes 41° ABDC
Intake remains open 226°
Exhaust opens 55° BBDC
Exhaust closes 3° ATDC
Exhaust remains open 238°

 

[JasonS]

I have the photos of my engine ldt 465 d with M.A.N on the tag and the casting mark. The tag is new but it is the same as the one that was on my engine. My engine is dated 1989. I put the LDS injection pump and injectors in today so now my ldt is an LDS now. It runs grea
View attachment 601104View attachment 601105

How does this prove that the casting mark belongs to MAN? Is there something in the picture that I have missed?

 

[JasonS]

There's an open eBay auction with the R6602 engine. It's like they took the same or very similar block and re-spun it as a gasser with a single head, added distributor, etc.

The R6602 came first; not the multifuel. Both had two heads. The multi has an obvious lineage with the preceding gas and diesel engines but it was clearly a new and more robust design.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Here is some interesting info on the valve timing:

LDS427-2 (from TM9-2815-204-35, dated 1964)
Intake opens at 6° BTDC
Intake closes 30° ABDC
Intake remains open 216°
Exhaust opens 36° BBDC
Exhaust closes 2° ATDC
Exhaust remains open 218°

White D5000 (White 2-155 tractor engine service manual dated 1981)
Intake opens at 5° BTDC
Intake closes 41° ABDC
Intake remains open 226°
Exhaust opens 55° BBDC
Exhaust closes 3° ATDC
Exhaust remains open 238°

I never got into motors to know what the difference in numbers means. Can you go into any more detail?

 

[rustystud]

I have the photos of my engine ldt 465 d with M.A.N on the tag and the casting mark. The tag is new but it is the same as the one that was on my engine. My engine is dated 1989. I put the LDS injection pump and injectors in today so now my ldt is an LDS now. It runs grea
View attachment 601104View attachment 601105

That is not the "MAN" trademark.

 

[ShawnIfert]

I have been doing some research on the trademark and I have not found anything information on it as of yet. You are most likely correct about the trademark.
But on another note, I took my truck for a test drive today that has the ldt d engine that I have installed the LDS 1a piston and liner kits, LDS 1a intake rocker arms, LDS 1a one hole injectors and a LDS 1a injection pump. The engine runs great. The EGT's were at 1250F so I will need to turn the fuel down about 5 flats to bring the EGT's down around 1100F. The Turbo boost pressure was 16psi. The Turbo is a NOS D turbo that I have also installed when I did the conversion. That maybe why the turbo boost is a little higher than normal. I like to run more in the safe zone that is why I am going to bring the EGT's down to 1100.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Ive run my truck at 1200egt and did head gaskets last summer. No indications that 1200 was too much.

 

[rustystud]

Shawn you realize the military went to the two hole injectors for better performance. The two hole injectors have a small hole and large hole. The large hole provides a "stream" of fuel to fill the piston bowl (for slow and steady combustion) while the second smaller hole provides a "mist" of fuel for immediate combustion.

 

[rustystud]

Ive run my truck at 1200egt and did head gaskets last summer. No indications that 1200 was too much.

Chris remember what temperature aluminum starts to melt at ! Hint it's 1200 F.

 

[welldigger]

Chris remember what temperature aluminum starts to melt at ! Hint it's 1200 F.

Except these pistons are an alloy. Aluminum also melts at 1220°F.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Chris remember what temperature aluminum starts to melt at ! Hint it's 1200 F.

Thats ok cause they are an alloy, not plain al. I run the crap out of my truck knowing I am on the edge, but thats cause I have a couple parts stashed away in case something goes wrong.

The inspection I did while the heads were off showed I have no worry running at or real close to 1200*. I have no problem warning folks about staying away from 1200, but worst case, I can put another motor in, I have one or two.

 

[rustystud]

Thats ok cause they are an alloy, not plain al. I run the crap out of my truck knowing I am on the edge, but thats cause I have a couple parts stashed away in case something goes wrong.

The inspection I did while the heads were off showed I have no worry running at or real close to 1200*. I have no problem warning folks about staying away from 1200, but worst case, I can put another motor in, I have one or two.

Chris we all know you like to live on the edge ! (especially with your truck ) . The rest of us though like to be more prudent ! At least I do. I used to run a home foundry and automotive pistons where the best way to get my aluminum from. They will start to melt at sustained temperatures of 1200F . I know the pistons are getting cooled down from the oil spray but still just to be on the safe side I would stay away from sustained 1200F temperatures.

 

[welldigger]

There are people that run egt's closer to 1300 and don't have a problem. Not saying it's a good idea. But it is possible.

But as Chris said these pistons aren't pure aluminum. They can handle higher than 1200. Not that it's the best idea.

 

[mobileauto2000]

Three strokes to cool down one stroke to heat up. And on that one stroke you would have to have 100% Thermal heat transfer to the piston to get 1200 degree aluminum. In the past I regularly ran 1300 egts. (Would not recommend, Bad injection pump advanced unit) When I pulled my heads there was no damage to the pistons at all. Just carbon buildup from running 100% wast oil. I now cut the wast oil with gas.

 

[JasonS]

I never got into motors to know what the difference in numbers means. Can you go into any more detail?

D4800: Naturally aspirated, 1120°F EGT at full load
D4800T: Turbocharged, 1165°F EGT at full load, up to 100kW output @ 1800rpm (134 horsepower)
D4800TA; Turbocharged and aftercooled, 1200°F EGT at full load, up to 137.5kW output @ 1800rpm (184.4 horsepower)
D5000: Turbocharged, 155 PTO horsepower at 2200rpm. Obviously, engine horsepower will be higher.

So, it is normal operation to run at 1200°F EGT and even the lower horsepower engines are over 1100°F.

 

[ShawnIfert]

I do understand the injectors and I was not able to source the two hole injectors at the time. I picked up the one hole injectors NOS for less than 50 bucks each. I will keep looking for the two injectors to install.

 

[ShawnIfert]

I feel more comfortable at 1100F EGT's. I spent the last four years restoring my truck myself during my days off. I have made many mods during the process. I am very happy with it and I just have a few small things to do and I will have it back on the road in a few days.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Sweet truck, thats one to be proud of.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

The manuals call for the 2 hole injector on the LDS-465-1 (This engine originally came with 1 hole.) not the 1A, according to Continental, the 1A should have the 1 hole injector. At higher power outputs, this is less likely to burn pistons, allows for more fuel burning longer and cools the bowl by evaporation.

 

[JasonS]

The manuals call for the 2 hole injector on the LDS-465-1 (This engine originally came with 1 hole.) not the 1A, according to Continental, the 1A should have the 1 hole injector. At higher power outputs, this is less likely to burn pistons, allows for more fuel burning longer and cools the bowl by evaporation.

Your post is a little confusing. The LD/LDT/LDS465-1 had two-hole while the LDS465-1A and LDS465-2 both had one-hole injectors (per TM9-2910-226-34 dated 1974). Seems a little odd that this TM doesn't require that the one-hole injectors should be replaced with the two-hole. Is the LDS troubleshooting manual the only place where this is said?

However, White and Hercules used the two-hole injectors on equal or higher horsepower equipment so it would seem that there is nothing wrong with the two hole injector as far as horsepower or engine longevity.