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12v conversion - can any "points of failure" be removed?

HelluvaEngineer

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Atlanta, GA
Hi guys. I know most are of the opinion to just keep the 24v system instead of converting. I just got my 1009 home and I may need to do a significant amount of rewiring regardless of 12v conversion or keeping it 24v. I'm also 99% sure I will need to rebuild the starter or get a new one. Anyway, I've read the conversion pdf and I'm not clear on a couple of things. Hopefully someone can set me straight.

  • Are there specific benefits to retaining 24v, assuming that I carefully solder / seal everything and do a good job?
  • Is there any way to eliminate the starter relay if you go 12v? I'm assuming the circuit for the starter switch is not beefy enough to engage the solenoid directly. Is there another option?
  • As suggested by the subject line, can anything in addition to one alternator and the glow plug relays be removed?
  • I will definitely be adding a winch and a HAM radio. How does that factor in to the debate?

Sorry of these are stupid questions or have been covered 1000x already. I'm really trying hard to get up to speed on this vehicle and the best ways to make it reliable. Thanks.
 

Paycheck

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12v conversion - can any "points of failure" be removed?

Hi guys. I know most are of the opinion to just keep the 24v system instead of converting. I just got my 1009 home and I may need to do a significant amount of rewiring regardless of 12v conversion or keeping it 24v. I'm also 99% sure I will need to rebuild the starter or get a new one. Anyway, I've read the conversion pdf and I'm not clear on a couple of things. Hopefully someone can set me straight.

  • Are there specific benefits to retaining 24v, assuming that I carefully solder / seal everything and do a good job?
  • Is there any way to eliminate the starter relay if you go 12v? I'm assuming the circuit for the starter switch is not beefy enough to engage the solenoid directly. Is there another option?
  • As suggested by the subject line, can anything in addition to one alternator and the glow plug relays be removed?
  • I will definitely be adding a winch and a HAM radio. How does that factor in to the debate?

Sorry of these are stupid questions or have been covered 1000x already. I'm really trying hard to get up to speed on this vehicle and the best ways to make it reliable. Thanks.
From my understanding the 24v is for the starter and glow plugs you can run two batteries off 12volt set up but starter and plugs need to be replaced you eliminate the isolated ground alternator run run a standard Non isolated ground alternator on the drivers side I just purchased isolated ground alternator but if my issues persist I will be selling my starter and alternator and begin the switch to 12 volt,as for the relay im not sure but if you have to keep it switch to the dog head starter relay conversation
 
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Truckyea

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I guess this just comes to individual taste, for simplicity 12v is fine, for a little more umph I'd wire up my own 24v with all new large gauge wires


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MarcusOReallyus

Well-known member
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Virginia
From my understanding the 24v is for the starter and glow plugs you can run two batteries off 12volt set up but starter and plugs need to be replaced you eliminate the isolated ground alternator run run a standard Non isolated ground alternator on the drivers side I just purchased isolated ground alternator but if my issues persist I will be selling my starter and alternator and begin the switch to 12 volt,as for the relay im not sure but if you have to keep it switch to the dog head starter relay conversation


  1. You are incorrect. It would be better if you refrain from giving advice on the electrical system.
  2. The use of punctuation is not optional on this site. It's part of the site rules to make posts readable.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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  • Are there specific benefits to retaining 24v,
Yes:


  1. It's a more powerful starting system, better able to turn over a diesel engine, especial when things are a bit on the weak side.
  2. Since it's 24v, you don't need as much copper in your battery to starter wiring. If you go 12v, you should upgrade all your battery cables.
  3. If it's stock CUCV, you can troubleshoot using the TMs (available free here on the site) and with help from Steel Soldiers members. If you convert to 12v, you are on your own.

Probably the only real downside of the 24v system is that you can't get a jump from every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the street. (Well, you can, but it's not nearly as simple. You basically have to charge both batteries in turn, then start the beast.)


  • assuming that I carefully solder / seal everything and do a good job?
Solder is not better than properly done crimps. There are good reasons that solder is permitted in marine applications, and crimp connections are preferred. Same for many avionics and military applications.

Do not use solder in the starter circuit.

  • Is there any way to eliminate the starter relay if you go 12v? I'm assuming the circuit for the starter switch is not beefy enough to engage the solenoid directly. Is there another option?
Nope. You still need a starter relay. It's not a problem. The Doghead Relay mod is insurance against a poorly speced part, not a cure for an inherently bad design. There's not a thing wrong with the design. Every vehicle I own has a starter relay to drive the solenoid. I doubt there are many cars that do otherwise. A starter solenoid draws a good chunk of current. You'd be crazy to push that much current through the key switch. THAT would be a lousy design.


  • As suggested by the subject line, can anything in addition to one alternator and the glow plug relays be removed?
Glow plug relay is needed, whether it's 12v or 24v. Same one works fine. If you are going to run a winch and ham, you probably need to keep both alts and batteries, or at least upgrade the stock ones. I am no expert on diesels, especiallly what's out there now, but all the ones I've seen have two batteries in parallel for starting.


  • I will definitely be adding a winch and a HAM radio. How does that factor in to the debate?
It doesn't. There's plenty of 12v available for your 12v accessories. Well, a 24v winch is going to be lighter than a 12v, for the same amount of pull. Smaller windings. More efficient. But, they may be a bit more pricey. And of course, like the battery wiring, you can use smaller wire for a 24v system than a 12v system of the same power.


Sorry of these are stupid questions or have been covered 1000x already.
Not stupid at all! :) But yeah, they have been covered. ;)


I'm really trying hard to get up to speed on this vehicle and the best ways to make it reliable. Thanks.
The stock system is quite reliable. You read about a lot of problems because these are 30 year old vehicles.
 
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Paycheck

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Buckeye,AZ
  1. You are incorrect. It would be better if you refrain from giving advice on the electrical system.
  2. The use of punctuation is not optional on this site. It's part of the site rules to make posts readable.
I don't believe it was advice I believe I stated it was my understanding, that being said I'm pretty sure you understood what I said since you've posted such a rude comment so if you don't like what I have to say how about you just ignore it To many rude people in this world we don't need anymore thank you.
 

Tinstar

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He wasn't rude at all.
He was correct.

You clearly do not understand the cucv 12/24v system.
It took me a bit to understand it. Now it's easy.
Reading about and researching old threads/schematics on it helped a lot.

Also the continuous run-on sentence post of yours was difficult to read.
He was correct what he said about that also.
 

HelluvaEngineer

Active member
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Location
Atlanta, GA
MarcusOReallyus: Thanks for your detailed response. That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll change out the relay and see how it does. For some reason this thing keeps smoking starters, but I don't have a lot of details from the previous owner. The one that's on there now is obviously new and there's another "new" looking one in the bed - obviously already fried.
 
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HelluvaEngineer

Active member
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Location
Atlanta, GA
It doesn't. There's plenty of 12v available for your 12v accessories. Well, a 24v winch is going to be lighter than a 12v, for the same amount of pull. Smaller windings. More efficient. But, they may be a bit more pricey. And of course, like the battery wiring, you can use smaller wire for a 24v system than a 12v system of the same power.
I already have a 12v winch so I'll have to deal with that. How do people normally power high draw items like this? I mean, do you pick the front or rear battery? It seems like drawing down one batter and not the other could potentially cause problems.

I've also seen some people using the digital 24v-12v converters for radios and such. It seems like this might be a good way to power a transceiver but I'm curious if anyone has experience with this.
 

firefox

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Maybe I missed something, but did you verify that the current starter and the one in the bed is
a 24 volt starter? If it is a 12 volt starter it might explain why you are burning up starters.
 

HelluvaEngineer

Active member
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Location
Atlanta, GA
Maybe I missed something, but did you verify that the current starter and the one in the bed is
a 24 volt starter? If it is a 12 volt starter it might explain why you are burning up starters.
It has a sticker on it that says 24V, for whatever that's worth. If I'm still having issues after the relay swap my next stop will be a starter shop.

I'm in the process of replacing the relay now and charging the batteries. I noticed that the terminals were not well connected. Might be why the starter was so sluggish and then finally "caught". Probably not helping the cheap Chinese relay that blew either.
 
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