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Advice needed - new guy with MEP004A
- Thread starter Back-in-Black
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Back-in-Black
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Getting close. Gotta get the radiator cleaned out and put back on temp style. Temp mount the controls too. Then I'm gonna run supply and return fuel lines into a 5 gallon diesel can and try to start this thing up. I guess if it runs, it will be time to figure out the power part? If we get all that going I think I'm gonna pull the motor and gen off the skids and set them to the side so I can take the case and skids to a sandblaster. I have 5 more bolts to remove to get the motor/gen out.
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Did you see any signs of front or rear main seals leaking? Clean up the loover control as best you can, and hope it works. If not, deal with it later. Do not put coolant in the set when you start trying to make the engine run. Just water. You may need to get back in the coolant side again. Water is cheap.
Back-in-Black
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Actually, no signs of oil leaks at all.
Yes, was planning to use just water because if it runs and can be made to make power, then I plan to pull it all the way down again, remove motor and gen from skids and bring skids and case panels to be blasted. Only 5 bolts left to remove to pull motor/ gen assembly off skids and the rust is pretty bad and needs to be blasted but don't want any chance of sand getting in motor / gen.
I reinstalled the water separator canister and installed 2 new fuel filters this morning. I used 6 micron for primary and secondary because I could not get the 10 micron filter till the end of the month and I also figure that with all the crud that was in the tank, I need all the filtration I can get for initial startup and such. The 10 micron filter should be here way before I'm ready to put this thing into service.
Yeah, I think the louvers will work - eventually. Actually may work now. After playing with it last night and thinking about it afterward, I'm wondering / guessing that part or all of the force required to actually open the louvers is supplied by fan suction?????? If that is true, then they'll probably work now. I was pushing on the lever that goes down to the lower hose and wondering why it was so hard to open the louvers last night. But now I'm guessing that the springs down there are actually for closing the louvers when the unit is off and not for opening them. Is this right? Opening the louvers by pressing on the louvers themselves required FAR less pressure than opening them by pushing on the linkage connection point.
Also, need to look better, but the radiator may not be as bad as I had thought. I think (like someone mentioned earlier in the thread), that all the crud at the lower hose was just collected there at the lowest point and not representative of the overall condition of the radiator.
I hope I can be in a position to fire this thing up in the next day or so. This weekend (and many more to come) just got blown out of the water this morning. The tree cutters showed up and dropped 4 LARGE trees in the yard in prep for our house addition project. 3 of them are MASSIVE oaks. One is 52" dia 2' off the ground. The other 2 are about 46". I have to cut all this crap up and move it to the burn pile and future-to-be-split-for -firewood-pile. Already got 1 tree back there ready to be split that was cut back in July. Probably splitting wood all weekend. YAY!!!
Yes, was planning to use just water because if it runs and can be made to make power, then I plan to pull it all the way down again, remove motor and gen from skids and bring skids and case panels to be blasted. Only 5 bolts left to remove to pull motor/ gen assembly off skids and the rust is pretty bad and needs to be blasted but don't want any chance of sand getting in motor / gen.
I reinstalled the water separator canister and installed 2 new fuel filters this morning. I used 6 micron for primary and secondary because I could not get the 10 micron filter till the end of the month and I also figure that with all the crud that was in the tank, I need all the filtration I can get for initial startup and such. The 10 micron filter should be here way before I'm ready to put this thing into service.
Yeah, I think the louvers will work - eventually. Actually may work now. After playing with it last night and thinking about it afterward, I'm wondering / guessing that part or all of the force required to actually open the louvers is supplied by fan suction?????? If that is true, then they'll probably work now. I was pushing on the lever that goes down to the lower hose and wondering why it was so hard to open the louvers last night. But now I'm guessing that the springs down there are actually for closing the louvers when the unit is off and not for opening them. Is this right? Opening the louvers by pressing on the louvers themselves required FAR less pressure than opening them by pushing on the linkage connection point.
Also, need to look better, but the radiator may not be as bad as I had thought. I think (like someone mentioned earlier in the thread), that all the crud at the lower hose was just collected there at the lowest point and not representative of the overall condition of the radiator.
I hope I can be in a position to fire this thing up in the next day or so. This weekend (and many more to come) just got blown out of the water this morning. The tree cutters showed up and dropped 4 LARGE trees in the yard in prep for our house addition project. 3 of them are MASSIVE oaks. One is 52" dia 2' off the ground. The other 2 are about 46". I have to cut all this crap up and move it to the burn pile and future-to-be-split-for -firewood-pile. Already got 1 tree back there ready to be split that was cut back in July. Probably splitting wood all weekend. YAY!!!
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Looks like you have your work "cut" out for you for a while! That tree cutting is hard work.
Hopefully you have a tractor or something with "lift and move" capability.
That bobcat looking thing sure would be neat - if it happens to be yours...
Back-in-Black
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I wish that Bobcat (actually Cat) was mine! But I do have a 30 hp tractor with front end loader that will move this stuff. Just gotta cut it in small enough pieces - which it needs to be 16" anyway for firewood. Which actually works out perfect on the large trunk pieces for picking up with the FEL.
I did this tree starting in July. Did it completely alone with no help but it took me almost 2 months - too damn hot! I'm too old and fat for this crap!! Amway, moved this from the front of the front yard to the middle of the backyard (probably 300' or so) with just me, my chainsaws and an old ratty looking tractor. I might have this stuff up for May at that pace!
The tree from July that I will be splitting this weekend. Hard to gt scale but that rack is 16' long, 8' high and made from 2x6s I had laying around.
Now, someone please explain to me how this gizmo is supposed to work. The "plunger" (attached to the lever / linkage) moves freely but the brass thingy doesn't move at all. Is it supposed to? I'm confused about what this is supposed to actually do if the brass thing doesn't move.... and it looks like it's not supposed to move. Also some fair bad corrosion in one spot but guessing that it won't matter all that much. Maybe build it back up a bit with JB Weld?
I did this tree starting in July. Did it completely alone with no help but it took me almost 2 months - too damn hot! I'm too old and fat for this crap!! Amway, moved this from the front of the front yard to the middle of the backyard (probably 300' or so) with just me, my chainsaws and an old ratty looking tractor. I might have this stuff up for May at that pace!
The tree from July that I will be splitting this weekend. Hard to gt scale but that rack is 16' long, 8' high and made from 2x6s I had laying around.
Now, someone please explain to me how this gizmo is supposed to work. The "plunger" (attached to the lever / linkage) moves freely but the brass thingy doesn't move at all. Is it supposed to? I'm confused about what this is supposed to actually do if the brass thing doesn't move.... and it looks like it's not supposed to move. Also some fair bad corrosion in one spot but guessing that it won't matter all that much. Maybe build it back up a bit with JB Weld?
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A boy and his tractor... Yes indeed! That is the trick. A bucket and a boom lift, a little cooler weather and the job will get done. I think I have a similar problem. The older and slower with a belly twice the size it should be.
All I know is that I work until I get hot and miserable, then say two words - the last one being "it". I go hang out inside until the AC does me up right and I go start again. I keep thinking that I need to find some sort of vest like the NASCAR guys use. One that circulates cold water - or the real way - with refrigeration lines that keep you (me) cool.
----
As for the gizmo: It looks like there are two really corroded pieces that should be moving. Maybe? I am not sure the intended purpose, but I wonder of a wire wheel or a wire brush could clean off some of that? Maybe then some penetrating oil. Just looks to me like there should be motion in at least two places. But I may be mistaken.
Back-in-Black
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I looked the gizmo up in the parts TM and then in the service TM. The service TM explained it and from that, I think it's at least mechanically functional. The brass thing is a thermostat and apparently activates the (pushes) plunger coming out the backside which then opens / closes the louvers via linkage. I guess at some point I will have to test the thermostat itself in hot water to see if it still works.
The temp here is 91F today - which is a lot better than 96F which is what it has been. We got a "cool" front which also dropped the humidity from our normal 86%+ down to about 50%. That makes 91F feel like heaven compared to 96 and 86%.
The temp here is 91F today - which is a lot better than 96F which is what it has been. We got a "cool" front which also dropped the humidity from our normal 86%+ down to about 50%. That makes 91F feel like heaven compared to 96 and 86%.
Back-in-Black
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I'm working toward trying to crank this thing up tomorrow afternoon-ish. In the even that it starts and by some strange happenstance, it makes power, should I drive a ground rod into the dirt near it and wire up a ground before I try to start it?
Ray70
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A ground rod definitely won't hurt! But I thought you still had everything all torn apart? Guess you will be putting in a full day on it tomorrow! Good luck, we'll be awaiting an update.
Back-in-Black
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About 10 minutes after I posted that about tomorrow I remembered that I have to go work my 3rd job tomorrow night for 4ish hours or so. So I doubt it gets started before Friday, if then. All bets are off for the weekend.
As far as "all apart". Yes, it's all apart still and will stay that way for the most part. The plan is to mount the radiator back on the front case section and put those 2 pieces (with fan shrouds) back on with about 4 bolts to hold it all to the skids. Then same thing with the rear case section and controls. I will run fuel supply & return lines down into a 5 gallon can of diesel, add water to radiator and hook up 2 batteries and giver a go.
The reason I am doing it this way is because I want to determine if I have more than a boat anchor before I drop real money into it. If it runs and will make power then I want to pull the motor/ gen assembly off the the skids and then bring the case parts and skids to a sand blaster. If I reassemble it w/o blasting and painting, it will continue to rust away and generally just look like hell.
I let the fuel tank dry out overnight after hitting it pretty good inside and out with a pressure washer yesterday. Put my eye to the fill hole in the top of the tank and looked around in there this afternoon. Still plenty of gradeaux in there so I re-installed the petcock (after cleaning it out) and poured about 2 gallons of 50/50 parts washer solution and water in there and it is now soaking. I will let it sit for several days before I drain and pressure wash it again.
I cleaned up the lower radiator hose fitting and the louver thermostat assembly earlier and they are ready to bolt back on. Will stop by the auto parts store to see if I can't match up the old gaskets with something. May just have to buy some gasket material and make my own. Just going to re-use the old gaskets for initial startup cause I really don't care if it leaks a little water - as guyfang said, "water is cheap". Especially here where we're waaaay over 70" of rain since 1/1/21.
Just need that ground rod and a clamp. Pretty sure I have some wire here that I can use.
As far as "all apart". Yes, it's all apart still and will stay that way for the most part. The plan is to mount the radiator back on the front case section and put those 2 pieces (with fan shrouds) back on with about 4 bolts to hold it all to the skids. Then same thing with the rear case section and controls. I will run fuel supply & return lines down into a 5 gallon can of diesel, add water to radiator and hook up 2 batteries and giver a go.
The reason I am doing it this way is because I want to determine if I have more than a boat anchor before I drop real money into it. If it runs and will make power then I want to pull the motor/ gen assembly off the the skids and then bring the case parts and skids to a sand blaster. If I reassemble it w/o blasting and painting, it will continue to rust away and generally just look like hell.
I let the fuel tank dry out overnight after hitting it pretty good inside and out with a pressure washer yesterday. Put my eye to the fill hole in the top of the tank and looked around in there this afternoon. Still plenty of gradeaux in there so I re-installed the petcock (after cleaning it out) and poured about 2 gallons of 50/50 parts washer solution and water in there and it is now soaking. I will let it sit for several days before I drain and pressure wash it again.
I cleaned up the lower radiator hose fitting and the louver thermostat assembly earlier and they are ready to bolt back on. Will stop by the auto parts store to see if I can't match up the old gaskets with something. May just have to buy some gasket material and make my own. Just going to re-use the old gaskets for initial startup cause I really don't care if it leaks a little water - as guyfang said, "water is cheap". Especially here where we're waaaay over 70" of rain since 1/1/21.
Just need that ground rod and a clamp. Pretty sure I have some wire here that I can use.
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Its 06:45 and I need to go to work. Will explain the loover control when I get back tonight.
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Well, got a call as I was walking out to the car. Stay home. Kinda nice, but lucky I had my phone on!
You are correct that the springs are there to keep the loovers closed. The loovers need to be closed to help the gen set warm up to 180 degrees running temp, that it so loves to be at.
This is a good diagram of the control assembly. Inside the round part, (item # 23) it is filled with bees wax. Or so I was told about 30 or so years ago. You will not find this diagram in the 004A or 005A books. This was taken from the 006A book. I have never taken one completely apart, as it is a a pluck and chuck item.
There is a piston that is activated when the temp of the coolant causes the bees wax to expand. The piston is pushed out, forcing the loover vanes to open, and when every thing works right, keep the gen set happy at 180 more or less. The best way to test it is naturally, start the set cold, and wait to see if it opens up. If you are not going to put the box back on the gen set, then it will not work. The set is designed to run with all doors closed. So do not run the set for hours and hours without the box. A while to test things is OK. The fan draws the cooling air through the set. When the loovers are closed, doors closed, it heats up fairly fast. There is a test procedure in the -34 to test the control assy. Simply heat up some water, and put the control assy. in it, and see if it moves. I can not remember the whole procedure off the top of my head, so do read it if you want to try testing that way.
We almost always just tapped out a gasket for the mating of the housing and radiator. Its a simple one that takes only a few min to tap out.
Pay attention to reassembly. Look at the TM for the procedure. Its easy to get it out of wack, and the loovers don't open wide enough, or too wide. When its all back together, you should be able to push the manual control handle down, the loovers open, and then when you release the handle, they snap closed with a real nice "Clap". And you do NOT want your fingers in there when they close. And the handle can also bite you! The system is designed to allow you to "force" the loovers open, to prevent over heating if the control assy. is bad. There is/was a rope on a hook there, to hold it open, when need be. With a bit of patience, you can get the set to run about at normal temp, by changing the length of the rope. You can also just tighten up the pivot bolt on the handle assy, and then the system is blocked/locked open.
You are correct that the springs are there to keep the loovers closed. The loovers need to be closed to help the gen set warm up to 180 degrees running temp, that it so loves to be at.
This is a good diagram of the control assembly. Inside the round part, (item # 23) it is filled with bees wax. Or so I was told about 30 or so years ago. You will not find this diagram in the 004A or 005A books. This was taken from the 006A book. I have never taken one completely apart, as it is a a pluck and chuck item.
There is a piston that is activated when the temp of the coolant causes the bees wax to expand. The piston is pushed out, forcing the loover vanes to open, and when every thing works right, keep the gen set happy at 180 more or less. The best way to test it is naturally, start the set cold, and wait to see if it opens up. If you are not going to put the box back on the gen set, then it will not work. The set is designed to run with all doors closed. So do not run the set for hours and hours without the box. A while to test things is OK. The fan draws the cooling air through the set. When the loovers are closed, doors closed, it heats up fairly fast. There is a test procedure in the -34 to test the control assy. Simply heat up some water, and put the control assy. in it, and see if it moves. I can not remember the whole procedure off the top of my head, so do read it if you want to try testing that way.
We almost always just tapped out a gasket for the mating of the housing and radiator. Its a simple one that takes only a few min to tap out.
Pay attention to reassembly. Look at the TM for the procedure. Its easy to get it out of wack, and the loovers don't open wide enough, or too wide. When its all back together, you should be able to push the manual control handle down, the loovers open, and then when you release the handle, they snap closed with a real nice "Clap". And you do NOT want your fingers in there when they close. And the handle can also bite you! The system is designed to allow you to "force" the loovers open, to prevent over heating if the control assy. is bad. There is/was a rope on a hook there, to hold it open, when need be. With a bit of patience, you can get the set to run about at normal temp, by changing the length of the rope. You can also just tighten up the pivot bolt on the handle assy, and then the system is blocked/locked open.
Back-in-Black
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Well, we had a tea party... errr I mean tree party this weekend. My brother saved my life and brought his 75hp tractor with grapple attachment. Had 5 people and 2 tractors working on it ALL DAY Sat and Sun and still worked all day today on it. Nothing left but 2 large trunks to cut up.
Got the controls, radiator, fan, belt and such back on. Think the radiator has a leak but hard to tell with the water I spilled filling it up. Will check in the morning. Got to pick up a ground rod & clamp, hook up batteries, ground the fuel pump (grounds are loose since I removed that piece of the case). and I should be ready to hit the starter button. Possibly Tuesday afternoon / evening.
Some pics of the tree party.
Heck of a saw horse:
Got the controls, radiator, fan, belt and such back on. Think the radiator has a leak but hard to tell with the water I spilled filling it up. Will check in the morning. Got to pick up a ground rod & clamp, hook up batteries, ground the fuel pump (grounds are loose since I removed that piece of the case). and I should be ready to hit the starter button. Possibly Tuesday afternoon / evening.
Some pics of the tree party.
Heck of a saw horse:
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That is a MASSIVE tree! Yes indeed...
Having the tractor and grapple sure made life easier!
Back-in-Black
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The stump in the picture was actually the second largest. That one was 46". One was 54" and the other oak was also about 46". I didn't measure the pine but it was probably 34"ish. Hard to get any scale of that pile in the last picture but it's about 15' high.
Back-in-Black
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Just walked back there to check for water leaks. The radiator actually seems ok. The lower fitting for the louver thermostat, the engine thermostat and the bypass hose at the water pump are all leaking a bit. The engine thermostat is the worst. Oh well, I was planning to pull all that stuff down anyway.
Picked up ground rod today while I was out. May try to start later this evening.
Picked up ground rod today while I was out. May try to start later this evening.
Back-in-Black
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Got the ground rod hooked up. Hooked up batteries - I seem to have a short in the DC portion- my circuit breaker keeps popping. Well, no one said it was going to be easy.
Scoobyshep
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Can also be a bad breaker, had a couple of them. Hard to say what it is since the controls have been altered
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Back-in-Black
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Really hard to diagnose without a schematic. Probably going to take a while to find.
Don't think it's the breaker though. when I reset it, I hear a hum and then it pops. 2-3 seconds.
Don't think it's the breaker though. when I reset it, I hear a hum and then it pops. 2-3 seconds.