M35A2 vs FMTV videos

[wsucougarx]

Not sure if these videos have been posted or not. Here are gov't videos highlighting the new FMTV w/contrasts to our deuces. I don't care what they say, I would still take the deuce over a FMTV anyday. It is a two part video series. Enjoy

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DOkmT3y5gQ&feature=related[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK_WwT2cM4o&feature=related[/media]

 

[wsucougarx]

A scrap metal dealer I go to for parts had triwalls full of FMTV parts. Apparently several metal components just aren't upto Military standards that the govt had to spend millions re-updating these trucks. Several triwalls were full of door hinges. Seems the doors would just fall off b/c hinges weren't up to par.

As far as the vid's I had to laugh at a couple statements. "The automatic transmission is unique because there is no clutching involved"...LOL
Love the bicycle helmet when the driver is going b/w cones

Too many parts, too many electronics, too many hoses, automatic tranny translates into too many problems as far as I am concerned.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yeah, I liked how they compared the steering of the deuce to a 4x4! DERR

 

[nklpltd]

One of the biggest problems with the FMTV/LMTV was the cabover design and the cab lifts weren't strong enough and would constantly break, especially with the uparmored cabs. Whenever our guys had to work on them, they had to get a crane and remove the whole cab, just to work on the damn engine... Now tell me that's not a design flaw...

But they do make a nice and very intimidating gun truck... see avitar...

 

[Keith_J]

The FMTV program has had but ONE contractor (with a change in ownership, they are still made at the same plant with roughly the same people). The M35 program had what, about 5? FMTV also uses mostly commercial, off the shelf systems, from engine/transmission and brakes. About the only thing specific is the EMP hardened electronics and controls.

Yes, Stewart and Stevenson TVS had early problems with durability of the drive line, body fittings and some sheet metal but so did the first M35. And the M39 5 ton? They were just about shot by the 80s. I can remember one upcoming FTX where we had so many deadlined vehicles Top threatened that we were going to go in LPCs....leather personnel carriers, boots. Bearings, brakes, torque rods, and electrical problems. I can remember the heartache of pulling hubs only to be greeted with brake shoes saturated with a mix of GAA and GO. Then overloading our meager BN PLL, DOL's supply and most of the federal supply system for new brake shoes. But in a combat heavy engineering battalion with lots of field construction, we put lots of wear and tear on the equipment.

Had we been using the new 5 ton MTV dump, I am certain we would have trashed them in short order.

 

[cranetruck]

So the CTIS must be in "highway" mode on side slopes....

 

[uscgmatt]

I noticed the cab is lifted electrically to access the engine. That could suck if the batts are dead.

Matt

 

[Nonotagain]

If cab-over trucks were such a great design, why has most of the over the road trucking industry given up on the cab over and gone to mostly long nose trucks?

The only cab-overs’ I see in my area are local delivery trucks which require greater visibility in tight confines.

As for safety, I don't want to be driving a cab-over and hit anything with the front end. I'll take my chances with 8' of hood, fenders and a 2500 lb engine for protection any day.

Having to raise the cab for routine fluid level checks is BS.

I've seen first hand what placing a jet engine on the tail of an aircraft does to engine longevity verses the same engines mounted on wing.

Given that the M35 series trucks were designed in the 1940-1950's when high horse power diesel engines and automatic transmissions weren’t available does not make for an apples v apples comparison. Why not compare the M35a3 against the FMTV? Its’ got power steering, a diesel engine not a multi-fuel, automatic transmission and the “ALL” important CTIS.

The only real advantage that the cab-over has verses the long nose truck is that they can load more vehicles in an aircraft.

 

[deuceman51]

I just finished an FMTV school yesterday that was put on by TACOM. My state got 30 FMTVs last year. They have sat in our storage yard and haven't been used at all. All 30 ECU's(main computer) were bad and had to be replaced. They all were defective from the factory. In the course we deadlined the truck because of one relay going bad. In fact if any one of about 5 relays goes out, the truck won't start. you can pull relays from non essential areas and put them in the burnt out ones slot, but if you run out or a bullet hits the PDP area, the truck is dead for a long time. Even our instructors kept saying how big of a piece of crap these are and they are the teachers!!!!!!!! They did also keep saying that they miss the "old deuces". The FMTV is awesome in it's ride quality, power, turning radius, and a few other things, but what good are those things without reliability? We all know the M35A2 can dang near get you home on 3 cylinders, 2 gears, 5 flat tires, and running on whiskey. I just don't understand why our military has forgot the lessons of the 1950s? Keep it simple so the average soldier can fix and work on it and make the thing able to work after a nuclear bomb goes off. I for one am sickened at the crap our military is getting. And don't get me started about the 12/24 systems on all our trucks!!!!!!!

 

[skidder]

YES i agree with Nonotagin, if you are going to compare apples to apples ,THEN do it right an use a M35A3 an a compareable FMT. Asfor checking eng. oil ,water an trans. oil thats BS !! Screw it anybody got a A3 thats wants to prove a POINT!! LETS GETTER DONE!! skidder

 

[Nonotagain]

You can thank your congress critter for a lot of the short comings of the new FMTV truck and reliability issues. They are the ones that voted for no longer exempting the military from the clean air act.

In the past the EPA exempted the military from a lot of safety and emissions standards. Not anymore.

The new engines are as close to an off the shelf engine as you can get which means that all of the engine monitoring systems have to work. Something as simple as a temperature sender having a poor ground will cause an engine fault and will cause the ECM to force the engine into a "limp home" mode. The engine will still run, but a greatly reduced power level.

Wait till they get forced into using urea injection as a means to reduce NOX emissions, its' coming.

 

[yeager1]

I think the FMTV is a great truck. Cabovers are amazing when it comes to visibility and they have a good turning radius for off road use. Great power too. Sure they had problems originally, but so did the deuce- look at the old deuce 427 and sprag unit, (or the original M-16) it was crap. Due to the politics of how part contacts are handed out (who gets the component contracts based on which senator’s vote is needed to win the bid) many new vehicles have huge problems, but they get worked out. Once all the details of door hinges, cab lifts, and electric components are weeded out these really are much more modern and easier to use trucks. Look at the old M37 compared to a HUMVEE- the M37 takes a 10th of the maintenance and had less issues, but I'd take the HUMVEE any day. If you could find one at a decent price I'd get it tomorrow.

 

[WillWagner]

In the past the EPA exempted the military from a lot of safety and emissions standards. Not anymore.

The new engines are as close to an off the shelf engine as you can get which means that all of the engine monitoring systems have to work. Something as simple as a temperature sender having a poor ground will cause an engine fault and will cause the ECM to force the engine into a "limp home" mode. The engine will still run, but a greatly reduced power level.

Wait till they get forced into using urea injection as a means to reduce NOX emissions, its' coming.

That's why we have the M35A3, trying to update the emissions. The Cat engines are close to off the shelf/OTR engines, but, the factory can make the engine ignore the sensor readings and just turn on the warning light and have no performance issues. Fire apparatus is that way and has been since electronic engines were introduced. Under the electrics, it is a modern diesel engine. The base engines are way more robust than the older engines...yes, the multi...and are very tough to break. As long as the factory programs the ECM to ignore the possible false sensor readings, the engine should have no limp home mode and run 'till it destroys itself. The only thing I don't like is electrically driven injection. That WILL leave you in a bad place due to all of the timing and metering done at the injector. Don't know how you'd work around that. As for urea injection on a non EGR engine not designed to do it, don't think that will happen. The engine and urea control systems are seperate but need to talk to one another, so unless the engine ECM is designed to communicate with and help control another system, it would be difficult to do as an add on. FWIW, urea has been around a while in Europe, so it is not a new concept. North america has had steady emissions reg increases for a long time, our technology has been phased in slowly over the last 30 years. Places like Asia and Europe had bassically no changes for a very long time. When they decided to implement a change, the change was very drastic, like going from 15 grams NoX to 1.7 grams per BHP HR in a very short timeframe, like 6 years. Urea was developed over there to reduce NoX...too far off topic, sorry.

A long time ago, well I guess not that long, around 2000 or '01, Paccar, KW/Pete and others, partnered up with forign truck mfgr, FODOR. These trucks are trash. Cheap body materials, pot metal and plastic throughout. The frames flex like they are made of a slinky. That is what the FMTV is like to me, they look almost identical. EURO TRASH. I don't think they are in business any more.
That was long winded just to say that!

 

[frodobaggins]

Biased video anyone ?

 

[Nonotagain]

Biased video anyone ?

Sure is/was.

S&S could not have produced a better video if they tried.

Lets fact facts, companies are in business to make money. There is no money making minor design changes to 45 year old trucks. Look at what Lockheed did to the C-130J aircraft. New engines, glass cockpit and new wing. Cost of the old model, $28-32M cost of the new C-130J, $68M and counting.

Modern warfare has changed. The HUMVEE replaced the Jeep as the small personal transport. All of a sudden the enemy found that the HUMVEE was not bullet resistant. We up-armored the HUMVEE and in the process overloaded the suspension and caused to doors to break off the vehicle since the frame was never designed to carry the load.

The 2.5 ton FMTV is only a 4X4 while the 5 ton truck is a 6X6. Using today’s weight ratings the M35 would rate as a 5 ton truck while the M813 would rate close to 10 tons. Not exactly and apples v apples comparison.

 

[airbornebandsman]

I noticed the cab is lifted electrically to access the engine. That could suck if the batts are dead.

Matt

Actually the cab is lifted by air. If the truck doesn't have any air pressure built up you have to jack it up from the control panel behind the cab.

 

[Keith_J]

Stewart and Stevenson no longer runs the Sealy TX plant, it was taken over by BAE Systems.

 

[kcimb]

I would take an FMTV over a deuce anyday, especially in combat-the deuce is too slow and not armored enough!

Stateside, deuce all the way, because I have to fix it when it breaks.

 

[kcimb]

The Marines have the excellent Oshskosh 7 ton and LVS

Awesome go anywhere vehicles, and FUN to ride in! (Also have many good sleeping spots, found that out also when in the deserts of CA)

 

[m16ty]

Look on the bright side. If they hadn't retired the deuce there wouldn't be nearly as many on GL for us to buy .