Ronmar
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You can level all you want, that wont balance axle weights, and that's an issue if you run CTIS…
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Thoughts on removing coil springs on A1R
- Thread starter aw113sgte
- Start date
- 574
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- Texas Hill Country
After our off road experience in the empty truck showing a lack of rear traction and reviewing the difference between the tare front and rear axle weights we are planning to move more weight rearward in the habitat in an effort to attain more balance. We have also noticed while hauling debris to the landfill, adding a ton or more weight to the rear really smooths the ride characteristics overall—
Ronmar
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Yep, thats why I am not concerned building my habitat out of steel like a ships hull(1/8X3 ribs, 14ga skin). The cab and chassis curbs at ~14.8K i removed a few hundred in the tire crane and lift bars, and am moving much of the mid structure(arch and tire) to the rear so I am starting a little under 14.5K. 1078 curbs ~17.7K, so i am figuring a all up weight approaching 20K should get me in the balance ballpark. now I don’t have the 600# of crew weight included in that curb figure, but I am not counting the added weight for the fairing and cab mods which will mostly cancel that out, or slightly lighten the front axle weight
i bought 4.5K in steel so far and I need a little more to finish the tire crane, mount and interior structure, so that will have me approaching 19K plus a few hundred for internal finish. Will have ~800# of water, but that is located near the trucks CG so that should mostly add axle weight equally…
i bought 4.5K in steel so far and I need a little more to finish the tire crane, mount and interior structure, so that will have me approaching 19K plus a few hundred for internal finish. Will have ~800# of water, but that is located near the trucks CG so that should mostly add axle weight equally…
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- La Crosse, WI
Well, they are off!
Not too bad to remove, They ended up being stroked out with just a tiny bit of compression still left after jacking the tire off the ground from a point on the frame. I was easily able to tap the bolts out in this position with little resistance.
I measured before and after heights (to the fender) - note there is a slight slope and my driveway is not perfect so you can't compare left to right, but you can the relative height change of each side. Left 55.4 -> 54.6, right 54.4 -> 53
I then drove to a fairly flat area to see the effect front-back. Before I had approximately 2.5" height difference in the habitat (rear being lower). Now that the front dropped by roughly an inch it is much closer.
Front right:50.7"
Front Left: 50.0"
Rear right:51.0"
Rear left:50.5"
Basically no height difference now so I'm super happy with that.
As far as suspension feel, I didn't have the dampers on so that will change things a little but the front suspension now feels much more plush. Was crossing over train tracks I have many trips across and before it would be harsh and rattle the cabin, now it's way smoother and you can feel the suspension soak up the bumps. Very very happy and seems like this is how A1Rs should be considering the only reason they have these springs is to support very heavy armor - that never happened. I may add a few hundred pounds in roof rack but that's probably it so I have no concerns there.
Now going to bust out a cutoff wheel and get those springs out.
Not too bad to remove, They ended up being stroked out with just a tiny bit of compression still left after jacking the tire off the ground from a point on the frame. I was easily able to tap the bolts out in this position with little resistance.
I measured before and after heights (to the fender) - note there is a slight slope and my driveway is not perfect so you can't compare left to right, but you can the relative height change of each side. Left 55.4 -> 54.6, right 54.4 -> 53
I then drove to a fairly flat area to see the effect front-back. Before I had approximately 2.5" height difference in the habitat (rear being lower). Now that the front dropped by roughly an inch it is much closer.
Front right:50.7"
Front Left: 50.0"
Rear right:51.0"
Rear left:50.5"
Basically no height difference now so I'm super happy with that.
As far as suspension feel, I didn't have the dampers on so that will change things a little but the front suspension now feels much more plush. Was crossing over train tracks I have many trips across and before it would be harsh and rattle the cabin, now it's way smoother and you can feel the suspension soak up the bumps. Very very happy and seems like this is how A1Rs should be considering the only reason they have these springs is to support very heavy armor - that never happened. I may add a few hundred pounds in roof rack but that's probably it so I have no concerns there.
Now going to bust out a cutoff wheel and get those springs out.
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Sweet! I'm going to delete the springs off my old set and give it a try!
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Spring was easy to cut with the cutoff wheel, just watch out when it lets go, you might fracture the cutting disc.
Requires 2 cuts to release pressure, second cut has almost no tension, then you can screw the springs together and a few whacks with a hammer you can take it all apart. Easy peasy. Threw on a coat a paint and polished up some corrosion on the shaft. Shock isn't gas charged - it will stay where you move it. Very easy to reinstall.
Requires 2 cuts to release pressure, second cut has almost no tension, then you can screw the springs together and a few whacks with a hammer you can take it all apart. Easy peasy. Threw on a coat a paint and polished up some corrosion on the shaft. Shock isn't gas charged - it will stay where you move it. Very easy to reinstall.
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I will add that I did this in the fall and it's GREAT. The ride quality increase is VERY significant. I can cross RR tracks at speed without throwing stuff off my dash. Speed bumps don't make me pucker anymore. And my original 2008 shocks after removing the coil springs work great and aren't even in bad shape with no leaks, etc.
Third From Texas
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I want to get this done soon.
I'm thinking of adding a boot (either shock or fork if I can find one that might mod-to-fit.
Not just for show but to protect the shaft and seals.
I'm thinking of adding a boot (either shock or fork if I can find one that might mod-to-fit.
Not just for show but to protect the shaft and seals.
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Just get that, make a vertical slice and cut to length. Easy peasy. Note they can cause more harm than good, they hold dirt. There is a reason no motocross have them on the forks or shocks anymore. (They do have shields from flying debris though.)
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Contemplating doing this also, @aw113sgte and @GeneralDisorder are you guys still happy with the coil spring removal? Do you notice any significant increase in body roll? Any reason at all to preserve the springs and remove them in one piece? I'm adding a few hundred pounds to the cab, but it shouldn't be anything close to an armor kit.
The ride is super harsh with the coils but my truck corners flat like a sports car!
The ride is super harsh with the coils but my truck corners flat like a sports car!
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Totally happy, truck is way more balanced now. You will have more roll as you decreased the spring constant, not that I notice it as I have a heavy truck with high cg so I don't drive it like a sports car, it lifts the inner tires too early.
I would absolutely do it again. Those coil springs are for multi thousands of pounds added weight you don't have so it makes the ride way harsh.
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Ronmar
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You could always add a front swaybar...
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Nah, I'll just ask you for a hydraulic roll control solution
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Do it. There's zero drawbacks.
Third From Texas
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I plan to remove mine.
But if for any reason I need to add back some support due to all the crap that will go in and on top of the cab, having a new pair of properly weighted springs coiled isn't that expensive. But I can't see ever needing to go back to the OEM coils.
EDIT: the bigger issue IMO is wtf are we ever going to do if these take a dump and need replacing
But if for any reason I need to add back some support due to all the crap that will go in and on top of the cab, having a new pair of properly weighted springs coiled isn't that expensive. But I can't see ever needing to go back to the OEM coils.
EDIT: the bigger issue IMO is wtf are we ever going to do if these take a dump and need replacing
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Probably be plenty of A1P2 chassis being scrapped and all the inventory being dumped due to the completely different A2 platform..... likely be plenty of em laying around for as long as you and I need em.
Ronmar
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that is a tough one unless you do something active... You really are not going to be able to beat the rugged simplicity of a mechanical sway bar... I am really surprised that they didn't put one on the front of the LMTV...Nah, I'll just ask you for a hydraulic roll control solution
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I'm planning on replacing mine with some custom King shocks. If someone could post the bushing centerline to bushing centerline, bolt diameters, and upper bushing width it would be much appreciated.
Third From Texas
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For that much of an expense, I'd not rely on anyone else's measurements.
That said, how are they getting your corner weights to valve the build?
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I may remove the springs in the short term to quiet things down and limit the kidney punches from hitting bumps. So if I do that, I'll obviously measure everything. My build is going to be long and slow, so corner weights will likely be based on GVWR and associated other fuzzy math. I know King has done shocks for these trucks before, but finding anyone at King with a knowledge of that hasn't panned out.