My engine is broke?

GUNNUT in Iowa · Nov 10, 2013

o1951 said:
Don't buy anything until you find out if your engine is repairable.
You say you rebuilt Engines & trans in past. You KNOW metal on drain plug and filter full of metal flake means serious damage, and usually $$$.
Follow my post 16 - If you have an air wrench, it will go fast. From what you have reported, I am thinking possible wiped crank.
Post #6 says he has a NOS engine. If yours needs lotta work, see what he has to offer.

I am leaning toward a gen-set engine swap. I agree with emmado22, in that a new donor engine should be a better solution all the way around: quicker, less expensive, worry free, easier, new, etc.
I have a couple of "feelers" out trying to locate engines. Just a few possibilities, but I am open to all of them.
I agree with you about the wiped crank. This seems to be a major failure - quick and permanent. Perhaps I will get a chance to pull the pan later this week. I am kind of busy tomorrow with Veteran's Day activities within the community and a military funeral (of all days).
I imagine there maybe others going through what I am - now or later. I will try and make this topic as informative (from an "I don't know what I am doing" point of view) as I can. I am sure it will take time.
Thanks, everybody, for your help and advice.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Nov 10, 2013

emmado22 said:
At some point the engine you currently have is uneconomical to repair. New engine with zero problems or hours is $650 or so, some hours of labor swapping mule parts to the stripped genset engine (free) and you can have a brand new, trouble free/worry free engine.

Or you can try to find the problem on the existing engine, fix it, and hope that the problem is not deeper than what you find, or that your fix is OK for now, and happens again or something else happens.

If it was my mule. I'd get a new engine, and have a weekend father/son project swapping out the engine, and that peace of mind knowing something else may not be lurking in the crankcase of the bad engine. I'd even keep the bad engine for a parts donor or the next owner.

As for the spin on filter adapter, I currently have the canister on my mule, and have the adapter in my Mule spare parts box. One day I will get around to swapping it out, but will keep the canister if I ever go to sell it.

I know if I buy a MV, I like it to be in unmolested shape. I try to make all my mods I do on my MV's easily "undone". No welding/cutting ever and no drilling holes (if I can help it), and do only bolt on mods only that way I can return everything to original condition. I have added an electric start and a repro Chrysler TOW alternator/mount on my mule, but have all the pull start components on the shelf, and could easily convert it back to original if I wanted, and you'd never know it was ever electrified. My personal belief is that I'd rather run my MV's than spend time fixing them and I like the "bolt on" mods that are easily removable to restore to original condition.

Keep us posted with what route you take.

I am with you all the way until the father/son project. It is just me, myself, and I. Personally, I think with the three of us, there will be much second guessing and discussion, but we will try and get through it.

I hear you on the "keep the parts" thing. Believe it or not, I even kept the old spark plugs. They looked to be original with much pitting on the OUTSIDE. I am not sure, if I should keep the old oil filter.

o1951 · Nov 10, 2013

I think we are all on the same page here - When I said don't buy anything, I was responding to your post #18 where you said "and should I buy a case of filters in order to have a life-time supply?

emmado22 · Nov 10, 2013

Military vehicles magazine issue #55 has an article on the swap. It is not too detailed, but it is something.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Nov 10, 2013

emmado22 said:
Military vehicles magazine issue #55 has an article on the swap. It is not too detailed, but it is something.

Thanks for the heads up. Contacted them to try and get a copy.
Isn't it cool? We talk to each other on two different forums?
Hopefully, more of the "cast a wider net" thing.

emmado22 · Nov 10, 2013

Message me your email.

Charlie · Nov 12, 2013

I would not put too much stock in the MVM article, as the person doing the swap did not change the oil pan, windage tray or oil lines. Plus, there is a discussion about the "oil cooler and lines", which the AO42 does not even have, suspect he is talking about the oil filter.

emmado22 · Nov 15, 2013

What is a windage tray?

bigbird1 · Nov 16, 2013

The theory is it keeps the crank from slapping the oil around in the pan thus loosing horsepower , It has to do with a vortex at high rpm's and pulling the oil up. Its one of those add on free horsepower things racers love.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 10, 2014

Started the conversion from a generator engine Monday, but it has been one of those kinds of weeks.

I have the new engine stripped (mostly) and the original engine removed from the Mule. Started the disassembly of it this morning and made decent progress considering the number of "visitors" in my shop. I am taking photo like crazy and hope to do a sort of tutorial - not that I am qualified to do a tutorial other than a "been there done that" sort of experience. I am sure I am not doing it "right", but I am doing it - and hopefully it will run, when I am done.

Anyway, here is what I found after removing some bolts this morning. That can't be good!

o1951 · Jan 10, 2014

Looks like a parts engine to me

emmado22 · Jan 10, 2014

Looks like confirmation that swapping out the engine was the right way to go. Keep it up, and it will be back together in no time.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 10, 2014

o1951 said:
Looks like a parts engine to me

I am not sure if I even have "engine parts" let alone a "parts engine".

I did not upload photos of the magneto. It looks even worse. I still have to remove the oil pan, but I believe I have determined why the thing stopped running. I just don't know which part stopped first - not that it makes a heck of alot of difference.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 10, 2014

emmado22 said:
Looks like confirmation that swapping out the engine was the right way to go. Keep it up, and it will be back together in no time.

I appreciate the support / vote of confidence. Perhaps when I get it running again, I will have a parade.

Al Harvey · Jan 10, 2014

I'm interested in what you find out after removing the oil pan. If the magneto was that bad, it could be what caused everything to lock up. Which could be some good news for the rest of the engine.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 10, 2014

Al Harvey said:
I'm interested in what you find out after removing the oil pan. If the magneto was that bad, it could be what caused everything to lock up. Which could be some good news for the rest of the engine.

I will pull the pan tomorrow and post photos of anything extraordinary.

It is a little difficult posting photos here, so I am not posting a bunch.

Here is what I have discovered so far.

The end of the camshaft is broke and the timing gear was bouncing around under the cover. This chewed up the inside of the cover.

The gear on the mag is torn up from the timing gear and the bottom of the mag housing is chewed up. The gear on the mag is "loose" - to put it mildly.

The governor appears to be fine, but the nylon gear did stay inside the cover, when I removed the governor, rather than sticking on the splined shaft of the governor. The nylon gear appears to be OK.

I don't know if the camshaft broke, which threw the timing gear out of alignment with the mag (and chewed up the mag gear as well as the housing). I would imagine, if the camshaft broke, it would stop the engine immediately and there would not be any "rotation" to chew up the mag gear.

Another - more plausible - explanation is that the mag gear came loose and eventually broke the end of the camshaft with the timing gear. I suspect a loose mag gear would allow the engine to run. Perhaps not very well, until it finally broke the camshaft, which would stop the engine immediately.

Either way, I am glad I have a new engine to put back in it. Unfortunately, it looks like I need a new magneto.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 26, 2014

Well, after 3 months and over 1,200 views, I think we can put this puppy to bed.

My Mule engine is NOT broke - at least any longer.

All it took was a new generator set engine, some extra parts, a little bit of "wrenching", and much learning. Some of it was easy. None of it was hard. None of it was excessively expensive (in the big world of miltary vehicle operation). ALL of it was a good experience. Learning is never bad.

I started some other topics on another forum about this project, but I am not sure if I can post them here.

I took extremely detailed notes - that I probably can't remember what they are about now. I might start a thread on a Generator Set to Mule engine swap, if anyone is interested.

Oh, and I have pictures, too. (and I might note, but not necessarily complain, that it is still difficult to post photos to this forum)

Please be nice with your comments about my governor cover. Mine was missing and I did the best (?) I could with what I had. I am anticipating delivery of an original cover, but if anyone else out there has an original I would be happy to buy it. Of course, then I would have two (maybe), but what the heck!

Al Harvey · Jan 26, 2014

Looks good. Glad you were able to get it back up and running. Don't feel bad about the governor cover, I don't have one on mine.

doghead · Jan 26, 2014

A motor conversion thread would be awesome!

Glad to see your mule is kicking again.

GUNNUT in Iowa · Jan 26, 2014

doghead said:
A motor conversion thread would be awesome!

Glad to see your mule is kicking again.

I have a ton of photos and would be happy to do a conversion thread. Anybody else interested? Not sure how long it would take me to put one together - and I need to figure out something on the photo upload thing.

Drove the Mule the four blocks back to the Armory at 3:00 this afternoon. It was nice weather for a "Mini-parade". The temperature has dropped twenty degrees in the last four hours. They expect a high of 6 tomorrow. The wife just got the call. School will be two hours late.

At least the van is finally back in the garage. I had to put the battery charger on it no less than four times to get is started, while it was sitting outside.

Yea, I know. It's Iowa and Winter - but I still don't like it!

My engine is broke?

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