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Thread: Looking for MA-1A Huffer Cart Technical Manuals

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    Default Looking for MA-1A Huffer Cart Technical Manuals

    Hi all,

    I've had an MA-1A Huffer cart for a while now and I'm finally getting around to working on it. Only problem is that nobody on the Internet seems to know where there are Technical Manuals for it.

    Anybody here familiar with these machines? My main problem is that there seems to be a stuck relay or a bad connection somewhere. I'm getting power from the batteries at various places/connections throughout the machine, but am not getting any power to the control panel. Looks like there is only one breaker for the entire machine from what I can see, and it's not popped.

    Sounds awesome when I jump the starter motor and turn the engine over for a few seconds, but that's about all I can get it to do! What I really need is a wiring diagram!

    Any help is appreciated!

    Not mine, but here's what it looks like:

    JOBoK9b.jpg

    Thanks
    -Steve

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    4 Star General Jericho's Avatar
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    May you have been NAVY , In the Air Force we used HUNDREDS OF THEM , most had the 71a gas turbine . We called them Plooshes for short, because when you stretched the hose out and loaded air down the line to flush it PRIOR to attaching it to an aircraft it would make a Plooshe sound. The engines were maintained by the Propulsion Flight ( Jet Engine Shop ) until well into the 90s .Iam assuming you have checked the batteries. The start sequence is simple really , Check your start switch relay , check the intake and exaust micro switches , they are put into run mode when the intake and exaust covers are opened . They are easy to see. use a PSM6( multi meter) to confirm voltage from the start swith thru the fuse and relays to the starter. The gas turbine also has a three speed switch on the fuel control, it senses RPM as a function , start, on speed (governed) and Over speed. one WARNING ,they are very noisey, use ear protection, Although they were usually used until failure they did have life limits and schedualed inspections using the Phase Isocronal Card Deck system , IF YOU SHELL OUT AN INDUCER OR EXDUCER AT OPERATIONAL SPEED THEY ARE LIKE A GRENADE, SHRAPNEL AND ALL, they turn at a very high rpm , oh and did I mention they GULP jet fuel T.O. s. may be hard to find , The Air Force historicly SHREDS , DESTROYS unneeded T.O.s , they were not as a rule put out for general public use unlike Army manuals But let me look around, My son was an AeroSpace Ground Equipment," AGE" mech and I was A Jet Engine "Jet Mech" , we both worked them , Ill pick his brain for you also

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    I retired in 1994, was a small gas turbine shop Chief in the mid eighties doing repair on these, Seems to me the T.O. number was 2G-GTCP-85-70a , it breaks down as Aircraft , Ground support, Gas Turbine Compressor Powerplant, 85- 70 a model. Air Research made or remanufactured most of these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    May you have been NAVY , In the Air Force we used HUNDREDS OF THEM , most had the 71a gas turbine . We called them Plooshes for short, because when you stretched the hose out and loaded air down the line to flush it PRIOR to attaching it to an aircraft it would make a Plooshe sound. The engines were maintained by the Propulsion Flight ( Jet Engine Shop ) until well into the 90s .Iam assuming you have checked the batteries. The start sequence is simple really , Check your start switch relay , check the intake and exaust micro switches , they are put into run mode when the intake and exaust covers are opened . They are easy to see. use a PSM6( multi meter) to confirm voltage from the start swith thru the fuse and relays to the starter. The gas turbine also has a three speed switch on the fuel control, it senses RPM as a function , start, on speed (governed) and Over speed. one WARNING ,they are very noisey, use ear protection, Although they were usually used until failure they did have life limits and schedualed inspections using the Phase Isocronal Card Deck system , IF YOU SHELL OUT AN INDUCER OR EXDUCER AT OPERATIONAL SPEED THEY ARE LIKE A GRENADE, SHRAPNEL AND ALL, they turn at a very high rpm , oh and did I mention they GULP jet fuel T.O. s. may be hard to find , The Air Force historicly SHREDS , DESTROYS unneeded T.O.s , they were not as a rule put out for general public use unlike Army manuals But let me look around, My son was an AeroSpace Ground Equipment," AGE" mech and I was A Jet Engine "Jet Mech" , we both worked them , Ill pick his brain for you also


    That's awsome to hear that you worked on them and that there were so many! Looks to me like the battery voltage isn't getting that far. I'm getting 24 volts up to the starter relay and a few places here and there, but not much further than that. It doesn't seem to be making it's way to the control panel, everything on it is dead.

    I appreciate you asking your son for more info. Manuals are impossible to get, so word of mouth is all I have!

    One big question for you: Does the box/housing of the turbine lift off of the cart?? It seems that it's not held down by anything other than a few bolts and also has hoist points on top.

    Here's a pic of my data plate:

    20171021_215749.jpg

    Thanks!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    I retired in 1994, was a small gas turbine shop Chief in the mid eighties doing repair on these, Seems to me the T.O. number was 2G-GTCP-85-70a , it breaks down as Aircraft , Ground support, Gas Turbine Compressor Powerplant, 85- 70 a model. Air Research made or remanufactured most of these.
    Just checked my data plate. It matches exactly what you said. Too bad Garret doesn't offer support for these anymore. Airesearch doesn't even have a website. Must've been stopped long ago.

    Do you know if the turbine housing box lifts off of the cart? I can't seem to lift it easily, but it looks like it was designed to lift right off after disconnecting a few things.

    Thanks!

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    We referedto the as APUs as well Auxillery power Units , and tiny turbines , The turbing is easily removed, Theses were manufactured when every thing aircraft related was built and maintained the same as your assigned aircraft , In the early days when ever we defueled a jet,could have been 10000 pounds or 2200000 pounds of jet fuel, we treated it as contaminated, and it was used to power the AGE equipment , MA1As.(air) MD -60s (Electricals) , Hydro carts (hydraulic power), NF 2 s Light (All,s ) -Hf 1,s and 2s, (heaters) various A/C unts , some big enough to cool 747s . It was all made for the USAF and seldom seen in the civilian world of aviation, All high quality and complex, NO ONE stocked parts and the USAF normally had no sales legal contracts with the manufactures, Tech Data was carefully controlled and every single T.O. was signed for each time it was used on a hand receipt, After accounting if excess they were shredded by the TODO tech order duty Officer an NCO . The Turbine is held in buy aircraft style mounts and is removed by two airmen in about forty five minutes, The cannon plugs are simply loosened and a few wires disconnected , pop the mounts , tail pipe v band clamp and attach a sling and out it comes , maintaenace was performed in a purpose built roll over turbibe stand, then testing was done after maintenance in a Small turbine test Cell/Stand , it had mounts , loading hoist, rail, chainfall and control panel as well as fuel cell, neat little unit . Parts will be near impossible to get, although the unit was used foe other applications, a near dirivitive was used in the C -130 Hercules APU /GTCP 397-71A located near the wheel well of the main gear. Thermocouples(pyrometer, Three speed switches, Fuel controls, Starters , Ignitire, Combustion can, Fuel nozzles, All easy to change, just don't think you will find them . I am sure they are well out of production, We had trouble getting them in the late eighties let alone now, Biggest problem was that there wasn't a lot of money in producing spares for a 40 year old system, They just ran and ran and ran , We welded up combustion cans that could have a 80 % loss of parent metal , meaning 80% of the original can surface could be repaired area .

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    You know, it wouldn't hurt to give Garret a call/email. They were very good to me when I needed some info on a MUST. They did not have to help, but did because they wanted too.

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    The start relays at K16 and k17. Near the fuel control test ports also know as the salt and pepper relays your looking for power thru the relays. They control the start of the start cycle. Once rotating the Three speed switch kicks in around 25 percent rpm opens fuel solinoid , supplies ignition, you should hear a snap snap snap as the ignitor fires then it acts again around 95% to control steady state operation. Then limits over speed at about 102 / 105 % rpm to prevent over speed. Ignition excitor has 24 to 28 VDC going in , 20 thousand volts out to ignitor . if you test by laying plug out side combustion case boss. It was very common. But. Be careful 20 k volts will kill you. Always ground ignition lead in removal to case to discharge ignition J box ( capacitive excitor box ) my son is in AZ at the moment TDY. He is back at the end of the week. He thinks he still has a tech School study guide on ploosh operation and trouble shooting. It’s also color coded you could trouble shoot most common faults with it alone. I’ll let you know when he finds it. Andy

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    Guyfang is correct. They may help you and just might have an old TO around. Historically they replied to official calls. We were billed at the wing level at an hourly rate , by the end of Viet - Nam garret had no more GTCP tech reps at any AFB s for that unit I never saw it used in any civilian applications. It just used too much fuel and was expensive to maintain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    The start relays at K16 and k17. Near the fuel control test ports also know as the salt and pepper relays your looking for power thru the relays. They control the start of the start cycle. Once rotating the Three speed switch kicks in around 25 percent rpm opens fuel solinoid , supplies ignition, you should hear a snap snap snap as the ignitor fires then it acts again around 95% to control steady state operation. Then limits over speed at about 102 / 105 % rpm to prevent over speed. Ignition excitor has 24 to 28 VDC going in , 20 thousand volts out to ignitor . if you test by laying plug out side combustion case boss. It was very common. But. Be careful 20 k volts will kill you. Always ground ignition lead in removal to case to discharge ignition J box ( capacitive excitor box ) my son is in AZ at the moment TDY. He is back at the end of the week. He thinks he still has a tech School study guide on ploosh operation and trouble shooting. It’s also color coded you could trouble shoot most common faults with it alone. I’ll let you know when he finds it. Andy
    Awesome, great info. Looks like the intake door microswitch was sticking open on mine. Got it working and now everything is getting power. Starter seems to work too, but my battery started dying at that point. Got it on charge.

    Lots of good info you've got there. Great to know. Hopefully this week I can have it up and running!

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