Lockout hubs

etool · Jun 26, 2009

Im new to this, but my question is, are the locking hubs for the M35's worth the money, (in fuel saving's) and wear on the bearings in the front end. :stir pot:

.

2Deuces wild · Jun 26, 2009

It depends on how many miles you drive? 1 to 2 miles per gallon? 600 dollars for the lock outs?

Junglemist · Jun 26, 2009

I have the Ouverson lockout hubs and for me it is almost more a matter of maneuverability. I drive my M35 around town here in Belize all the time. The streets were built in 1949 when all the highways in the country were dirt. Without them it would be much more difficult to navigate these streets.

GoHot229 · Jun 26, 2009

Worth it.....not really, somebody's making 'BANK' for each pair they sell. Fuel savings, as TwoDeucesWild said, their getting 1-2 miles per gallon, so that in itself is substantial. The thing is, I supose it will be nice to have, but a big chunk right at first $$$, but when and if you ever sell it, that modification alone will up the value like having a whinch truck verses a non-whinch, another $12-1,500 . Same with the lock-out's, another $500 to the value

tie6044 · Jun 26, 2009

I run the Ouverson lockouts too and really like the fact that everything up front is not spinning needlessly. One thing to keep in mind is that they will always hold their value pretty well, plenty of off-road guys would buy a good used set if you ever decided to sell your deuce without them.

If you want a set of Ouverson's lockouts let me know, I can get you a set for $585.00 with free shipping within the U.S.

KaiserM109 · Jun 26, 2009

etool said:
Im new to this, but my question is, are the locking hubs for the M35's worth the money, (in fuel saving's) and wear on the bearings in the front end.

Putting a single lockout on one of your rear hubs will keep the 2 axles from fighting to go in a straight line. To make a turn without a hub, one of the 4 pairs of duels has to slip.

A single hub in the back has 2 BIG advantages:
1) The original military NDT (we used to call them "tactical") tires are dangerous at best on slick roads, i.e. ice and rain. A lockout on a rear hub will make the whole thing follow in a turn better. The front tires don't have to fight the back ones so much.

2) It will make non-power steering at slow speed a little easier.

I've seen on this website where guys (gals too) will pull a rear axle and replace it with something (maybe a broken axle) to keep the end sealed. That will do the same thing.

Jinx · Jun 26, 2009

Excuse the dumb question, but I would like a little clarification for us noobs.

Here's the way I understand it. Lockout hubs on a 4x4 truck usually let the front tires freewheel unless the truck is in 4x4. My dad's 1991 Ford truck requires you to exit the truck and lock the hubs manually. When they are locked, this makes both front wheels to turn at the same speed. (right?)

Do the locking hubs on a deuce keep the two front wheels turning the same speed all the time, or just when the truck is in 6x6 mode?

Is it okay to drive a truck with locked front hubs on the pavement? Seems like you would want unlocked hubs on the pavement to get better grip. This is why 4x4 trucks let you unlock the hubs.

russ81 · Jun 26, 2009

Jinx,
Hub lock outs and differential lockers are two different things. The hub lock outs give you the option of manually connecting or disconnecting the front drive axle shafts to or from the wheel hubs. So, while you are unlocked the front end provides no power, and only free wheels like the front end of a two wheel drive truck.

A differential locker is what locks both drive axles together making the tires both spin at the same speed. The hubs have no effect on causing both tires to spin together.

Look at it this way: Lock outs work on the outboard side of the axle shaft connecting or disconnecting the hub to the axle. Lockers work on the inboard side of the axle shafts mechanically locking both shafts together.

rmgill · Jun 26, 2009

On the M35s the Lockout hubs work with the airshift trucks. You cannot use them with the sprag equipped trucks.

Normal operation is to select the front axle with an airswitch on the dash which engages the front axle to the drive line in the transfer case. With this in the off position, the front axle STILL spins as you go down the road. This means the front axle, knuckles, differential and drive shaft.

Adding lockout hubs in an unlocked condition means that the wheels spin but the axles, front axle drive shaft and everything in between is NOT driven.

This is less wear and tear on the front drive line and one less bit of mechanical stuff spinning that's not needed to spin. I like this. That's why I have a set of Overson Hubs on my deuce.

Jinx · Jun 26, 2009

Oh I see now. Lockout hubs on a deuce means the front wheels are spinning independently and not turning the front differential while the truck is in RWD. This saves on fuel because less components are turning.

Does that mean the lockout hubs will lock automatically when the truck is engaged in 6x6 or do you turn something to stop the wheels from spinning freely?

jimm1009 · Jun 26, 2009

There are no Automatic hubs available for the Deuce...only manul.

This means someone must get out and lock them in prior to getting into the slick stuff. The axle is not powered until you flip the air switch unless you have the old sprag-style transfer case which sends power to the front wheels if it feels the rears slipping.

Jim

KaiserM109 · Jun 26, 2009

Jinx said:
Excuse the dumb question, but I would like a little clarification for us noobs.

Here's the way I understand it. Lockout hubs on a 4x4 truck usually let the front tires freewheel unless the truck is in 4x4. My dad's 1991 Ford truck requires you to exit the truck and lock the hubs manually. When they are locked, this makes both front wheels to turn at the same speed. (right?)

Do the locking hubs on a deuce keep the two front wheels turning the same speed all the time, or just when the truck is in 6x6 mode?

Is it okay to drive a truck with locked front hubs on the pavement? Seems like you would want unlocked hubs on the pavement to get better grip. This is why 4x4 trucks let you unlock the hubs.

Russ81’s answer is right on the money for the first 2 questions.

To answer your last question better, if you do drive a truck (4x4 or 6x6) on a hard, dry surface with all axles locked in and assuming that you have a standard transfer case, you will increase tire wear and strain on all your equipment, particularly your ‘U’ joints. On old M37 3/4 ton trucks this often caused the long axle in the rear to break.

Look at it this way, start with a standard 2 wheel drive, when you go around a curve the differential allows your outside wheel to speed up and your inside wheel to slow down, i.e. the name “differential”.

Now, add another drive axle, as in your dad’s 1991 Ford. When you want to go around a turn, your back axle wants to track a smaller turn than your front axle; this is what causes people to curb-hop when they don’t allow a little extra room for their back wheels. Your back axle wants to go slower than the front, but if your transfer case has your 2 drive shafts locked together so that they have to turn at the same speed, something has to give somewhere. In 4x4 conditions one tire somewhere slips.

Driving on slick roads with all wheels locked in can be very dangerous. This is because in a turn something has to slip and it will probably be one or both of your front wheels, causing loss of steering control. RULE OF THUMB: In a 4x4 (or 6x6) if you are going over 15 MPH, take it out of 4 (or 6) wheel drive.

My earlier post to this thread refers to exactly the same thing, but in reference to your 2 back axles. On hard dry surfaces, it is beneficial to let one of your rear axles run independently of the other. Putting a single lockout hub on any of the 4 back hubs will allow that axle to effectively slip on one wheel. This will reduce the strain between the 2 axles, thus reducing tire wear and maybe help gas mileage and steering.

russ81 · Jun 26, 2009

One other thing that has not been mentioned.
Today's modern 4x4's use a different gear set for the front and rear differential. The front axle uses a faster (numerically smaller) gear set to "pull." This aids in steering. If you had a faster gear in the back you would be "pushing" the front end causing your steering to wonder more. This does have a significant draw back. Going on pavement causes your drive line to "load up" making your tires chirp relieving the built up pressure. That is why it is recomended to only use four wheel drive on surfaces that allow slipping, and to not stay engauged at high speeds.
Case in point. A guy I work with's wife drove his truck from Ohio to Arizona in four wheel high running an average of 80 mph. So far he has completely rebuilt the entire front axle (most of the parts were BLUE....this means the parts were at least 400 degrees), last week he had to have the transmission and transfer case both rebuilt, and he had to have all new seals installed in the rear axle.

Unless you are driving in a straight line, and at low speeds, you HAVE to allow at least 3 of the tires to spin at a different rate at different times or else you are wearing parts. That is why when you get a 2 wheel drive truck or a car stuck in the mud you only get 1 wheel drive. And, it is never the wheel you need to spin. Remember, PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE. What ever is free to spin, will.

dabtl · Jun 26, 2009

I have the AVM hubs and I am very satisfied with them.

So far only one failure of a locking hub has been reported, by any manufacturer, on this board. It was a minor problem. So, pick the hub of your choice, they all work.

It takes about 15 minutes to install.

I will buy another set sometime in the near future for the second deuce.

OD_Coyote · Jun 26, 2009

I have Selectro hubs on the front of my deuce, the AVMs were not available when I ordered mine. Anyway, another plus to front lockouts is that they reduce wear on the front axle u-joints and the inards in the front pumpkin, which is all good as long a you lock the hubs or engage the front axle once in a while to keep things limbered up IMHO.

Jinx · Jun 26, 2009

Is there a way to lock the front differential to prevent slipping of either tire when climbing up a steep hill or driving through mud? I'd think equal speed between tires would create the best traction offroad.

wheelspin · Jun 27, 2009

big bad lockers, that's the key to the wheels on that axle to pull at the same rate. i have seen locking diffs for the G.I. rockwells, but they are not cheap of user friendly to install..
my question is: why can't you install lock out hubs on a sprag truck. i am currently riding around with one and hate how it drags the rears on any corner. plus it would save my front tires a bit - right? the more i hear about this damn transfer case the more it scares me that its a time bomb just waiting.....

OD_Coyote · Jun 27, 2009

Jinx said:
Is there a way to lock the front differential to prevent slipping of either tire when climbing up a steep hill or driving through mud? I'd think equal speed between tires would create the best traction offroad.

I seem to recall a SS brother that had a line on some ARB lockers for the 2.5 ton rockwell axles awhile back. You may want to search the forum for the thread. I think the ARB would be the way to go.

gimpyrobb · Jun 27, 2009

The sprague works by sensing the rear axles turning faster than the front. Once it gets to about 7% a clutch engauges and starts sending power to the front. With lock outs on the front, it will always try to put power to the front. So if you put lock outs on a sprague truck, it wears out the disks. Then you will have NO front wheel drive.

Oh yeah, I agree with Kaiser109, you'll be better off running a lockout on the center axle. You'll have to get a different axle for it to work with it, but they are available.

jesusgatos · Jun 27, 2009

russ81 said:
One other thing that has not been mentioned.
Today's modern 4x4's use a different gear set for the front and rear differential. The front axle uses a faster (numerically smaller) gear set to "pull." This aids in steering. If you had a faster gear in the back you would be "pushing" the front end causing your steering to wonder more. This does have a significant draw back. Going on pavement causes your drive line to "load up" making your tires chirp relieving the built up pressure. That is why it is recomended to only use four wheel drive on surfaces that allow slipping, and to not stay engauged at high speeds.
Case in point. A guy I work with's wife drove his truck from Ohio to Arizona in four wheel high running an average of 80 mph. So far he has completely rebuilt the entire front axle (most of the parts were BLUE....this means the parts were at least 400 degrees), last week he had to have the transmission and transfer case both rebuilt, and he had to have all new seals installed in the rear axle.

Unless you are driving in a straight line, and at low speeds, you HAVE to allow at least 3 of the tires to spin at a different rate at different times or else you are wearing parts. That is why when you get a 2 wheel drive truck or a car stuck in the mud you only get 1 wheel drive. And, it is never the wheel you need to spin. Remember, PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE. What ever is free to spin, will.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is just not true. No modern 4WD vehicles (at least that I'm aware) of have different gear ratios front/rear. Sometimes it's not possible to match gear ratios exactly if you're putting two different types of axles under a vehicle, and a few % difference is acceptable, especially if its an off-road truck. I don't think any of the Pro 4 CORR trucks even run different gear ratios front/rear, although I'm not sure about that. I have several Toyota trucks that I run in 4WD full-time for thousands of miles without any problems. Some vehicles aren't tolerate that, but it's not because of the gear ratios.

Lockout hubs

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