do i need a cdl for a 5 ton?

does the five ton have full air brakes? or any thing else that would make it different then my duece and a half?

GVW is much higher. the 800 series trucks are air over hydraulic brakes.

The 800 series haveair over hyd,the 900 series have full air brakes.Gvw is what makes the difference,anything over 26k gvw requires CDL.Sometimes tagging it historic gives you some advantages.

Short answer is yes due to GVWR

well if i have to sell my trucks in NY then i want tio buy something with a Cummins in it down here in Ga but i dont have a cdl and i dont want to deal with that yet

Short answer: Yes.

Take a CDL class if you want a 5 ton. You want to utilize the entire GVWR of the vehicle & don't want to have to pick-n-choose what model to buy.

You can't park 5 tons in many residential neighborhoods. They are above the GVWR limits for many cities.

What type of CDL? A or B? and do you need the medical card?

Trudge said:

does the five ton have full air brakes? or any thing else that would make it different then my duece and a half?

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This is a state by state issue. Some states let you drive any size truck on a regular license as long as you are not for hire while other states may require a CDL due to the truck having tandem rear axles (regardless of weight). To add insult to injury other states have non-commercial A and B licenses. Your best bet would be to check with DMV in your own state. When you call ask for the regulation that covers the different classes. I have had DMV people tell me that I required a CDL but they did not take in to consideration that I was not for hire (that can make a difference). Don't just limit your calling to DMV. Check with the state DOT people (weigh scale officials) or State Troopers Commercial Law Enforcement division. The key thing is to get the reg number to read it yourself.

Ruppster

Short answer might be "yes" but the accurate answer is "maybe"

No federal requirement for CDL to operate the 800 series 5-tons if not using it for commercial use. Some states might require a CDL for private vehicles over a certain GVWR, and others let you drive any size truck without a CDL if it is a personal, non-commercial vehicle.

You mention NY and GA - I don't know those state regs. so you'll have to have someone in those states provide an answer.

Ruppster said:

This is a state by state issue. Some states let you drive any size truck on a regular license as long as you are not for hire while other states may require a CDL due to the truck having tandem rear axles (regardless of weight). To add insult to injury other states have non-commercial A and B licenses. Your best bet would be to check with DMV in your own state. When you call ask for the regulation that covers the different classes. I have had DMV people tell me that I required a CDL but they did not take in to consideration that I was not for hire (that can make a difference). Don't just limit your calling to DMV. Check with the state DOT people (weigh scale officials) or State Troopers Commercial Law Enforcement division. The key thing is to get the reg number to read it yourself.

Ruppster

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In Louisiana I am driving a 30K 5 ton truck on a regular Driver'd License. I had to take the truck to the State Police to have the Vin. verified and they didn't ask to see my DL or say anything about needing a CDL. I use my truck for personal use not for hire and it has Stenciled vin. as the tag.

Atomic said:

What type of CDL? A or B? and do you need the medical card?

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Class B is for a single truck (no trailer) or a large truck with a trailer no larger then a 10,000 pound rating. Class A (combination vehicle) is for large trucks with a trailer rated at over 10,000 pounds. If the trailer is rated for 10,000 pounds or less you only need a Class B. If a CDL is required.

As far as the med card that's a real gray area and like the CDL issue can be a state by state deal. Federal regulations state that a med card, log book, and annual DOT inspection are not needed if you are not for hire, even if your state requires you to have a CDL to drive a not for hire truck. But some states require it anyhow. I have a CDL from Alaska. I had to get one to drive my antique semi truck even though I'm not commercial because the state of Alaska does not allow an exemption from CDL requirements for private use (the Federal regulation does but not Alaska). The fun part is starting in a year or two the Feds have past a requirement that states must tie a person's med card to their CDL endorsement. This way if your med card expires (you have to give a copy to DMV each time you renew it) the state drops your CDL status. As of right now I don't know how my state will handle this issue. They have not figured how to handle this problem. Anyhow, the point is if a CDL is required in your state a med card may or may not be needed.

Ruppster

see if you can get a non commercial drivers license. they have them in PA. it is an easier license to get and it doesn't have the same restrictions

goldneagle said:

In Louisiana I am driving a 30K 5 ton truck on a regular Driver'd License. I had to take the truck to the State Police to have the Vin. verified and they didn't ask to see my DL or say anything about needing a CDL. I use my truck for personal use not for hire and it has Stenciled vin. as the tag.

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That's cool. Virginia was the same way. If you were not for hire you could drive what ever size truck and trailer you wanted. Virginia followed the Federal guidelines for the state's laws about licensing as they kept the Federal exemption from needing a CDL if the truck was for personal use. I would carry a copy of the laws with you at all times though as all it takes is one Officer to not know the laws to ruin a good day.

One other issue is how a state defines a "Commercial Motor Vehicle" (or CMV). If a state says a CDL is needed to drive a Commercial Motor Vehicle then you need to look up that state's definition of a CMV. In the Florida DOT Commercial Motor Vehicle handbook here's what it says about a "Commercial Motor Vehicle":

DEFINITION OF COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE
For the purposes of compliance with the safety regulations, a commercial motor vehicle is any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on the public highways in commerce to transport passengers or cargo, if such vehicle:

1. Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more;
2. Is designed to transport more than 15 passengers including the driver; or
3. Is used in the transportation of hazardous materials.


In the definition above the key words to focus on are "in commerce". Some states even give a definition of commerce. Anyhow, if a truck is not used for hire there is no commerce. Unfortunately Florida does not use CMV when it defines when a CDL is needed. So as far as I can tell a CDL is needed in Florida, regardless of use, if the trucks GVWR is 26,001 pounds or more. But they do use the term CMV when it talks about needing a med card.


What I hate is the requirement for IFTA. IFTA was meant for commercial trucks but the main office for IFTA says I have to have IFTA (or a permit) if I were to drive out of my home state, even if I'm not commercial. Some states I have dealt with told me I didn't need permits if I was hauling my own goods but several states I have driven through said I had to buy permits anyhow. here's what the Florida DOT book says about IFTA:


All qualified motor vehicles licensed in Florida and engaged in interstate commerce in at least one other member jurisdiction must license under IFTA. A motor vehicle that is used, designed, or maintained for the transportation of persons or property, and:

1. Having two axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight exceeding 26,000 pounds
2. Having three or more axles regardless of weight
3. Used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight

IFTA exempts the following vehicles from registration:
1. Government-owned vehicles
2. Recreational vehicles not used in connection with any business endeavor.


Again, the key word is "commerce". And they have a strict deffinition of "recreational vehicle". It must be registered as an RV for the exemption.

Ruppster

If you are not using it for buisness you don't need a medical card and if you are not pulling a semi trailor stick with class B. Thats my 2 cents.

Thanks guys. Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I go and spend a bunch of money only to find out I need something else. I'll check with the all knowing and polite people down at DMV next week.
Respectfully,
RTH

Some states you can get by without the CDL on these vehicles.

I wouldn't trust the average person at the DMV. I get different answers from each person I talk to there. Arizona has the Arizona Revised Statutes (State Law) listed on the web. Your state may do the same. Arizona has an exception for recreational vehicles and historic vehicles. I printed the laws out and keep a highlited copy in the trucks. Ruppster, Do you have a link that has the Fed regulation you mentioned that exempts personal use trucks from the med card, annual inspection and CDL?

in commerce

whether or not one is in commerce is a tricky one. Ever haul an antique tractor to a pull where there is a prize? ever haul gravel for a buddy and he gave you a beer or something else of value? even if you don't place at the pulls technically you are in commerce as you may have received something for your troubles.

bevanet said:

Ruppster, Do you have a link that has the Fed regulation you mentioned that exempts personal use trucks from the med card, annual inspection and CDL?

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If I remember correctly those issues were covered in:

FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY REGULATIONS, TITLE 49


I don't have a copy of the Federal rules myself. When I drove my semi truck down from Alaska I carried a copy of the Alaskan State Statutes that showed my state's requirements (or lack thereof) for such documents. Since a state can not make a law easier and can only make things tougher this should have been all I needed. Alaska's statutes were based on the referrence listed above. So I didn't carry a copy of the Federal stuff. Also, if I remember correctly when reading what the Federal highway people say about CDL requirements you have to keep and eye out for the use of "Commercial Motor Vehicle". That makes a big diference.

If you can not find what you need let me know and I will look back through some of my stuff to see if I can find my notes about the whole issue.

Ruppster

Atwater said:

whether or not one is in commerce is a tricky one. Ever haul an antique tractor to a pull where there is a prize? ever haul gravel for a buddy and he gave you a beer or something else of value? even if you don't place at the pulls technically you are in commerce as you may have received something for your troubles.

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That's another gray area. Over on the ATHS forums someone posted a letter from some head honcho in the Federal highway office about this. The letter stated that cash prizes were okay to a certain point. Something about if you had to file taxes on the prize money or if the prize money was considered income and had to be declared as income on you taxes. If so you were in commerce. If not then you were okay. The problem is when I have talked to weigh scale officials they consider anything given to you for the purpose of hauling a vehicle as income, even if it's just a trophy. The problem is proving them wrong. That's why when I help my friends by hauling something for them I won't even let them pay for a gallon of fuel.

Ruppster