BND Automotive Diesel/Oil Additives

Yesterday, I was approached by a guy who may be a big help in our quest for better/cheaper fuel alternatives. Not only is he an MV nut, but he is a chemist that specializes in fuel/oil additives. He is interested in our cause and wants to help. Here is his website: bndautomotive.com. Tell me what you guys think. He is local.

Anyone check out this website? Any thoughts or concerns? I am curious about going forward with this.

Well, let's see...
Starting with the additives for both gas and diesel engines,
Statements made that when you look back again are worded so that you can not actually challenge the statement.
The factual nature of some of the items presented so as to sound like facts are off the wall.
The factual nature of some of the items presented as fact are off the wall.
The claims regarding the performance of the product rival some of the farthest fetched claims I've heard regarding miracles in a bottle.
Then there's the other products...
Every product on there uses snake oil salesman phrases to sell it. "Exceeds requirements of...". Yeah, sure. Which ones. Not all of them, otherwise it would be approved. Period.
The coolant they offer and list a whole slew of specifications for... It did not satisfy a single one of those.
The power steering miracle they offer... They're chasing "inherent problems that are present in today's power assisted rack and pinion steering systems, but they don't specify what that is. They pretty much outlast the cars these days, failures can be traced back to something actually happening to them. They don't "wear out". what's to improve upon?
Selling engine oil based on a pressure gauge reading? Of course the pressure is up, you've got too thick of an oil in the engine and it's all stuck between the pump and the filter, where your pressure gauge happens to be... Instead of valid facts, tests, or information, they are perpetuating myths based on old and inaccurate information that sticks well with people who have absolutely no understanding of now an oiling system works within an engine, and then using said myth as the selling point. If they had something good to sell, they'd be selling it.

A quick look for the MSDS for the diesel shmutz shows that they keep a TIGHT lid on that... Great for trade secrets, but look up ANY other additive you can think of. The only ones that hide what's in them are ones that contain shmutz that while federally approved as an additive, are detrimental to your engine, while the products that can actually help you clean up a mess... Their MSDS does not take advantage of the trade secret rules. If they've got stuff you want in them, they advertise it that way. Alcohol in a diesel fuel additive is an example.
This product is an emulsifier according to the company themselves, which means in essence instead of protecting your fuel injection components from water, it forces it through. Bad news for wear and scoring on the fuel lubricated parts of the IP, and bad news for exploding injector tips, because even emulsified water boils when the injector opens, and it relies on liquid to cushion the collision when the spring closes it.

Bottom line, local or not he's got nothing that you want, this is snake oil at it's worst, and I'm very sure that the guy does "want to help"...

Interesting. I managed to leave out a couple facts deliberately because i wanted to hear what people had to say about the website. I appreciate the response, but I am curious to know your experience to refute this guys claim. I am weighing both sides here.

Refute which claim? Which product on that web site are you proposing is a benefit to the MV hobby? The dude's all over the map...

I'm more curious about the diesel additives. not concerned about the oil additives. Don't work for the company or with the company for any endorsement. I'm sure you can see any of previous posts never mentioned anything about this stuff. I was hoping to hear some reactions by people who do more than just dump diesel kleen or mess around with oil/diesel mixes.

Will he send you copies of independent lab test results?
What manufacturers have approved the products for use in specific engines?
What test standards do they meet, (ATSM, ASME, SAE, etc.)

Garandfan said:

...I was hoping to hear some reactions by people who do more than just dump diesel kleen or mess around with oil/diesel mixes.

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OK, who would you like to hear from then? If you want unsupported, undocumented testimonials (<-- look up the implications of that as it applies to advertising), then you already have that. They've provided it for you. If you want to consider the product based on it's merits, then a rational look at the advertising will tell you a whole lot.


They're making off the wall claims. They are claiming that their product contains five million, eight hundred thousand BTUs per gallon? Got a match? They're claiming that they can burn water for added energy content. Have we repealed the law that says energy can neither be created nor destroyed? It's an emulsifier. Have we figured out a way yet for emulsified water to adequately cusion the injector closing event without damaging the tip? Something in your fuel tank is improving your volumetric efficiency? Really?

The entire page is based on "common knowledge" derrived from the internet, none of which has any foundation in truth. They have nothing that anybody in an MV (or any other motor vehicle) wants to have. They are selling snake oil that you can buy just about anywhere in any color bottle you like.

Your new friend is not looking out for your best interest.

A bit more digging turned up this.
MSDS

I'm gonna make a call tomorrow and talk to him. Thank you for the replies. Now to expand on what this guy told me. He owns/operates the company. He worked in the corporate realm and got out. He claims he works on equipment in the mining industry, like the huge earthmovers. Did some work for John Force-did something with the turbocharger. Was asked recently by Uncle Sam to look at why the M1 Abrams keeps throwing a main turbine bearing. He said it has a problem with oil cooking and turning into ash after shut down. Apparently the Exxon and the other oil companies cannot figure out how to solve the problem. I'm going to take your points to him and see what he has to say.

I would not spend money on additives for fuel that cost more than the simple solutions that already exist.

1) A cetane improver will help with keeping your fuel from gelling and improves combustion.

2) I use 2 cycle oil as an additive to replace the lubriucity of the fuel in the injector system.

There are several threads in the forum that discuss additives and lubricity. All I can tell you is that I have put enough fuel through my truck to know what works and what makes no difference. It runs well now on the diet I have it on.

I would guess that everyone here feels the pinch at the pump and therefore are interested in saving money where they can when it comes to feeding a deuce or any other MV and each has found a solution. Smooth talking salesman are dime a dozen. I suggest that anyone who is considering some expensive solution to our ultra low sulfur diesel do a couple of searches in the forum and you will find a lot of information here.


RL

Garandfan said:

I'm gonna make a call tomorrow and talk to him. Thank you for the replies. Now to expand on what this guy told me. He owns/operates the company. He worked in the corporate realm and got out. He claims he works on equipment in the mining industry, like the huge earthmovers. Did some work for John Force-did something with the turbocharger. Was asked recently by Uncle Sam to look at why the M1 Abrams keeps throwing a main turbine bearing. He said it has a problem with oil cooking and turning into ash after shut down. Apparently the Exxon and the other oil companies cannot figure out how to solve the problem. I'm going to take your points to him and see what he has to say.

Click to expand...

Be sure to take your hip-waders with you... Coking & ash issues with oil have been known for years; this is nothing new. I'd take his comments with a grain of salt; if he's that smart, Exxon/etc., would have scooped him up by now & hired him.

'Tanner'

Garandfan said:

I'm going to take your points to him and see what he has to say.

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If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have finished what I started. I was going to quote the diesel supplement talk-up and address it point by point. That got LONG... There were about three sentences that did not have something wrong with them to set off red flags... Have you read this yourself yet?

I know you've read what I and others have typed, but you're not hearing what I'm saying...
This is double talk. This is nonsense. This is technobabble. This is garbage.

You can take my points or anyone elses points to him if you like, but if you feel that doing so is newsworthy to any of the four people who have posted here, then you havn't heard what was said.

Common sense prevails here. Don't just read the words, don't just hear the "idea" that he is getting across... That doesn't count in advertising. (FWIW, in person he IS ALLOWED TO LIE TO YOU ALL DAY, EVERY DAY)... Read what he printed word for word and DO NOT put anything in there that he has not said. Tough to do, but this is a tough world that we live in.

Read the MSDS (which was very much not easy to find BTW because it's not in the search engines). Yeah sure, poly ethyl this, and iso ester that... Sounds chemicalish just like it should, right... They all sound the same and I'm not a chemist..., BUT it doesn't mean you can't PROCESS that stuff. What CAN you determine from that? What is his super unique one of a kind synthetic non-petrolum miracle made of and what other brands can you buy that in? If you havn't picked up any other red flags yet, that ALONE should help you identify the biohazard that's rolling off of his tongue...

Ask away... When you come back I'll tell you what he said.

Sorry, this is the same thing I just said, but upon re-reading it, it comes across in a tone that I really don't like. I've just got to say it a little differently.
Before you talk with the fellow, follow up on some of what was mentioned here. Don't count on his smarts, count on yours... If you remove yourself a little bit, and look at the web site you provided, the web site Tanner provided, and the MSDS that I provided, you'll be pretty well equipped for this conversation. It might even save you the phone call. You already know from that information what he is going to say to any question you could ask him...
BTW, truth in advertising does not apply to conversations. Only if he puts it in writing. Send him an email, and don't even read it until you scroll to the bottom and see if it's got the company signature on it.

This sums it up nicely...

Tanner said:

Be sure to take your hip-waders

Click to expand...

Well I talked to the guy today. He liked my truck so much he offered me 5K for it so he can have fun with it and experiment with his snake oil. NOW WHAT?!

See!!! I knew he'd find a way out of explaining where those extra BTUs came from...