Converting your CUCV into a High MPG power diesel! (and solving emissions)

patracy

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Tell you what. A very simple a cheap test you could do to see if this bears any feasibility is to build a simple injector pop off adapter out of an old bottle jack, injector, and injector line. You can setup your inductive heater over the injector and heat it up however you like. Then test for any seizing that likely will happen in a close tolerance device like that. You could observe flow/atomization unheated along with heated. And more importantly if/when the injector hangs closed or open.

I'd highly suggest NOT using diesel fuel for this test as it's a recipe for danger though. But it can at least show that if a injector can bear any sort of reliance in the means you're wanting to attempt.

You could also simply use propane in a diesel to help act as almost a catalyst to ensure complete burn in the cylinder. I've ran propane on two trucks I've had in the past with great results. Granted the net gain was minimal.
 

Barrman

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Hot Rod was among a few magazines I waited for eagerly each month to learn about vehicles way back when.

Since the DB2 injection pump retards the timing as RPM’s increase. Due to diesel fuel igniting faster as pressure and temperature increase. Increasing the temperature of the fuel will have you starting over on the timing settings.

I also think an electronically controlled diesel might be a better test bed for your ideas. Timing and fuel rate are changed by the computer. Which means you could with say a single cylinder diesel ATV engine get a baseline fuel consumption at idle for 5 minute baseline. Then start heating the fuel to see if it goes down or not. Plus if it still runs. Just a thought.
 

Jake59

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Hot Rod was among a few magazines I waited for eagerly each month to learn about vehicles way back when.

Since the DB2 injection pump retards the timing as RPM’s increase. Due to diesel fuel igniting faster as pressure and temperature increase. Increasing the temperature of the fuel will have you starting over on the timing settings.

I also think an electronically controlled diesel might be a better test bed for your ideas. Timing and fuel rate are changed by the computer. Which means you could with say a single cylinder diesel ATV engine get a baseline fuel consumption at idle for 5 minute baseline. Then start heating the fuel to see if it goes down or not. Plus if it still runs. Just a thought.
Morning Barrman,

Definitely timing will have to be retarded, as stated in my base document, some but not a lot however. The burning speed of diesel or vaporized diesel remains primarily the same: 3m/sec, but the burning - or fuel explosion if you want - will be shorter and heftier, as all the vaporized diesel ignites at once and without delay, unlike the normal injection cycle where we see an ongoing vaporization in the cylinder during the ignition cycle. That is why timing must be retarded.

I have been around diesels all my life, and from a very young age workd on them. Agreed, all of them are German diesels and in that sence may differ somewhat from other diesels, but they all operate on the same principles. Got my own professional injector calibrating / pop off tool and can do my own checking and adjusting of needle lift pressure and have plenty of old nozzles and neeldes laying around which I use for various testing. I have not developed nor written my design, based on a wild idea or some hot air in a paper bag, but resulting from trial and many errors. Only a few more elements to check and we should be able to go to the next step...

The problem with the electronically controlled diesels is that just about all of them use the multiple spray hole injectors, which do clog up very quickly due to carbon build up in these tiny little channels with a 0.16mm and some even with 0,13mm diameter and therefore are not suitable here. Having a single hole nozzle with a protruding needle is most important for this setup as there is a cleaning action by the needle to prevent carbon build up.

But I would have never come as far as I have without following good recommendations, which is what I will continue to do!

Thanks for sharing your views and ideas,

Jake
 

Jake59

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Tell you what. A very simple a cheap test you could do to see if this bears any feasibility is to build a simple injector pop off adapter out of an old bottle jack, injector, and injector line. You can setup your inductive heater over the injector and heat it up however you like. Then test for any seizing that likely will happen in a close tolerance device like that. You could observe flow/atomization unheated along with heated. And more importantly if/when the injector hangs closed or open.

I'd highly suggest NOT using diesel fuel for this test as it's a recipe for danger though. But it can at least show that if a injector can bear any sort of reliance in the means you're wanting to attempt.

You could also simply use propane in a diesel to help act as almost a catalyst to ensure complete burn in the cylinder. I've ran propane on two trucks I've had in the past with great results. Granted the net gain was minimal.
Good morning Patracy,

The ideas I have shared here are not just on paper design but the result of research and trial and many errors and fails.
And yes, there will be the need for some needle honing and tuning to remain operable for most nozzles and needles, but it varies with make, engine, injector body type, etc... this is an individual discovery area.

At 750 F the nozzles and needles will need more maintenance as well, more dismanteling and cleaning and they will wear out sooner than with regular use. Half life is what I am talking about here and maintenance, i.e. removal, dismanteling, cleaning and re-assembly will also be required will also be essential, not every 10.000 of course.
When heating up the fuel line, I have had injectors jam and I have had others that work just fine, as said very variable from brand to brand and engine and injector body.

In an ideal setup, one should be able to measure the fuel temperature at the nozzle tip, but obviously that is not possible. At the nozzle tip fuel temperature should be 750 F to be perfect.
WIth fuel entering the injector at 750 F, the actual temperature of the fuel being injected at the needle tip is much, much lower, less than half the 750 no doubt!!, just because the fuel is cooled down by the injector body, the cylinder head, the cooling system proximity. But even then, the net result should give considerable gains in fuel economy and open the road to the ultra lean and clean, low emmission diesel which no longer requires obstructing engine and turbo killing DPF filters, Add Blue crap etc!!

As for using diesel fuel at high temperatures, rest assured, high heated diesel may only ignite when in contact with oxygen and I say may, because it is not always the case; most often it simply evaporates in the air!

Not a bad idea you have tried with propane in a diesel!
The issue with diesel engines as they are, is however that they do not burn clean, only a fraction of the injected fuel is oxydized in the ignition phase and the bulk of the fuel needs to be processed in the exhaust system... wasted.

Let me inform you of one step further I am going: my home heating system runs on domestic diesel fuel. The entire boiler and heating kettle needs maintenance and cleaning due to soot and carbon build up. Cause is the incomplete burn of the cold (barely warmed up) sprayed diesel fuel in ambient temperature air.

These heating systems are very ineffective. Not sure what the rules are in the USA, but during the mandatory annual maintenance the technician will always adjust your burner to "optimize" the efficiency and then they measure and finally hand you the result, which then comes out like: "93% efficiency". This sounds great and makes you smile, doesn't it!?!?

But what that actually means is this: the base line they start off of is 50% efficiency at best and of those 50% you have reached a 93% efficiency, which actually means 46%. The seemingly "high efficiency" values have simply been created to give the customer a "warm and fuzzy feeling" of high rentablity of his diesel fuel heating system.

Same applies here: preheat the fuel to 750 F and then inject it in the boiler and spark it (you will need to spark it because there will be no autoignition!); let it now burn completely and clean and get heating from your fuel instead of soot and unburnet exhaust fumes!!
There are other challenges here that require your attention however. The line pressure must be sufficiently high to keep the fuel from boiling in the feed line, also this may cause carbonizing inside the fuel line; the nozzle must be of a closed nozzle type with a shut off needle valve that opens only after the preset pressure is reached,... etc, but also here I am slowly getting closer to the solution.

Best,
Jake
 

MarcusOReallyus

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You could also simply use propane in a diesel to help act as almost a catalyst to ensure complete burn in the cylinder. I've ran propane on two trucks I've had in the past with great results. Granted the net gain was minimal.
There used to be a company that got started making propane mods for farmers in Idaho. It was a winter project for some potato farmers. Trucks and tractors, but mostly trucks. Made fore more power and easier starting in cold weather. Bully Truck Accessories. They got a name, started selling accessories, too, and pretty soon dropped the propane stuff. The geegaws made more money with less hassle. Sold out to some big company about ten years ago, IIRC.
 

patracy

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I can see we're simply going to dismiss a lot of key things. So I'll wish you the best of luck.
 

Jake59

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Objective is merely to share what I have learned in practice until now, not to share a theory or just a paper concept!

A little bit of thinking out of the box is the foundation of innovation, discovery, invention. Even when it sometimes seems like doing what may seem unworkable or wrong.

I am not trying to sell anything, nor convince anyone just by taking my word for it. Further work and hopefully the full implementation will speak for itself within a while! My intent is just to share with all.

But in the event I should suddenly drop off the planet any time sooner or later, you can bet your money on it that this design deserves your further interest and in your own interest!!

Regards,
Jake
 

Skinny

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I don't think you are gaining the efficiency you think you are by improving combustion to lower emissions. Sure maybe a few percent but it's not like you are cutting your fuel burn down by a big enough chunk to justify the process.

There is no free lunch and the 6.2 already does a pretty good job at effeciency. It takes a certain amount of fuel to do the work and a diesel works in that principle.

Sure maybe a gas engine that is wasting fuel because it has to work near stoichiometric regardless of the load. But there is no way any of the 100mog carb schemes actually work. You can't beat the system.

You are still talking about burning the fuel. Until you step into chemically altering it for power ie. Fuel Cell technology. The ICE engine will always have some compromise and today that is after treatment with a cat and DEF.
 

Jake59

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I don't think you are gaining the efficiency you think you are by improving combustion to lower emissions. Sure maybe a few percent but it's not like you are cutting your fuel burn down by a big enough chunk to justify the process.

There is no free lunch and the 6.2 already does a pretty good job at effeciency. It takes a certain amount of fuel to do the work and a diesel works in that principle.

Sure maybe a gas engine that is wasting fuel because it has to work near stoichiometric regardless of the load. But there is no way any of the 100mog carb schemes actually work. You can't beat the system.

You are still talking about burning the fuel. Until you step into chemically altering it for power ie. Fuel Cell technology. The ICE engine will always have some compromise and today that is after treatment with a cat and DEF.
Thanks Skinny,

I'll keep your considerations in mind as we go forward.

Best,
Jake
 

Skinny

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Thanks Skinny,

I'll keep your considerations in mind as we go forward.

Best,
Jake
I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Stanadyne spent a lot of money coming up with the Roostamaster. I'm sure it a pretty solid piece.

Personally I would be entertaining more of an electrically supplemented turbo improving VE over trying to get the last few percent out of the fuel delivery system.

I'm still wondering if anyone will develop a way to capture waste heat energy from the exhaust. That would be revolutionary for the ICE. If that's not an oxymoron... 🤣
 

911joeblow

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As an option to our cooling balance kits we offer fuel preheating. This is not preheating to 700deg like being discussed but from ambient to 200-220deg which is normally wasted energy to the atmosphere. This is critical in WVO and B100 applications in order to reduce the viscosity of the fuel stock. It is also used in extreme cold applications with normal diesel as well. The benefit is such that it also helps with fuel burn during the summer months. Anybody wanting to add this option to their existing engines with our kits installed can do so easily. For those without our kits we also have an option for you as well.

 

Keith_J

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The inefficiency of this diesel engine is not from unburned fuel unless you have white exhaust smoke. Partially burned fuel is black smoke as the hydrogen is first burned.

High compression is one key to efficiency, this engine is already high enough. The main heat loss is through the precombustion chambers as this is the hottest point, the next largest heat loss is the piston.

Ceramic coatings may reduce this heat loss. Heat is work is energy, reducing heat loss maintains cylinder pressure and this is what creates torque.

Yes, injection timing is critical. And the DB2 adjusts timing based on pump speed advancing with part throttle retarding. Timing also advances naturally with greater injected quantity. So timing is all over the map and not much outside of a reputable rebuild shop can perfect it.

This engine will never be efficient at high RPM, simply because it wastes heat through the cooling system. But keep it between 1800 and 2400 RPM with a high throttle position and it is a respectable 0.410 pounds of diesel per horsepower hour.
 

Jake59

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I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Stanadyne spent a lot of money coming up with the Roostamaster. I'm sure it a pretty solid piece.

Personally I would be entertaining more of an electrically supplemented turbo improving VE over trying to get the last few percent out of the fuel delivery system.

I'm still wondering if anyone will develop a way to capture waste heat energy from the exhaust. That would be revolutionary for the ICE. If that's not an oxymoron... 🤣
Hi Skinny,

Not a problem, I have an open mindset and will listen to all suggestions.

Thanks for your thoughts!!

Cheers,
Jake
 
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