Dana 60 front w/ crossover steering?

[olly hondro]

Hydro-assist is next on the list for my D60.

 

[welpro222]

It would be on my list too, if I had money to burn.

 

[richingalveston]

hydro assist tie rod wrap fix

If you install hydro assist on a high steer set up, you will find that the cylinder creates a lot of tie rod wrap. The cylinder will move up and down when turning right and left because of the extra travel that the ball joints have at the tie rod ends. This extra play allows the cylinder to move while not actually moving the tires for a short second until the tie rod wraps as far as the tie rod ends will let it.

The cylinder must move front to back. Up and down movement is not needed and allows for moments of no hydro assist when working the wheel back and forth quickly. The wrap in the tie rod causes the hydro assist to not work while the tie rod is moving up or down. The pitman arm is also still moving but without the hydro assist until the tie rod wraps to its stopping point and then thy cylinder starts assisting again.

I built a swivel link between the cylinder and the axle which allows the cylinder to move back and forth in a slightly arched pattern. It allows for the needed movement and zero tie rod wrap. Without this link the steering feels like it needs a shock stabilizer added to the assist system.
This minor modification to the Hydro assist system makes a huge improvement and I believe it will let the tie rod ends last longer.

I will be welding the tab to the axle however I cant weld to the cylinder so hose clamps will be permanent on the cylinder side.

 

[tim292stro]

I gotta say - that mount doesn't look like it does much good for side to side movement (what the cylinder should be imparting into the knuckles...).



[EDIT:] I think it's poor form to just dog someone's idea without offering a solution or alternative. Here is what I am doing in my truck build in VERY crude drawing (view from rear driver's side quarter):



In this embodiment, the cross-over steering and inter-knuckle tie rod are as normal for high mount cross-over installation. The hydraulic assist ram is mounted on one end to the axle tube near the differential housing on a ball mount swivel eye. a second hole is drilled on the driver's side arm to match the steering box's cross-over tie rod hole on the passenger side's arm. The end of the ram shaft has another swivel eye end so that the cylinder is allowed to fully float as the angle move across the steering travel. This requires a special cylinder to account for the volume difference on the one side, or you can double the cylinders and have one attached to the bottom of the bolt which mounts the cross-over tie rod.

I'm probably going to go overboard with the steering dampers - I'm leaving the original steering tie rod arms on the front, and each will get its own damper with the mount welded to the center of the axle tube (not pictured)
[/EDIT]

 

[olly hondro]

Hmm. I was going to have a tab welded on top of the diff housing then another on the high mounted tie rod, so the cylinder is up out of the rocks as well. I don't know about the extra motion described, guess I'll put a "wheel cam" under there so I can watch.

 

[richingalveston]

what you cant see in the picture is the cylinder is mounted on tabs welded to the axle on the drivers side next to the spring mounts, so there is not side to side movement on the cylinder. With only one end tied down, the other was free to move in what ever direction the tie rod will take it. This strap I built simply controls the movement of the free end of the cylinder.

Olly Hondro, your drawing will not work unless you have a lot of lift. The steering arm does not have that much angle. I have 5 inches of lift and my steering rod is parallel with the tie rod. The cylinder has to be behind the tie rod or otherwise it will have nothing to mount to. The tie rod and steering arm are both in front of the axle putting the cylinder in front of that leaves the cylinder mounted over air. The axle is 6 inches back.

Also, you want the cylinder parallel with the tie rod so it is pushing and pulling in the same direction that the tie rod is supposed to go. With the cylinder at an angle, it is going to be pulling the tie rod down on left turns and trying to push it up on Right turns. The other issue with your drawings is that you will have to build a new arm for the passenger knuckle at this time I do not know anyone who makes a knuckle extension for the hydro cylinder. And the tabs for the other end of the cylinder will have to come forward and up to get the cylinder parallel with the tie rod.

I did not reinvent the wheel with my hydro assist system. I purchased the PSC kit that ORD sells along with the ORD cross over high steer system. After it was installed I saw a need to fix a problem that ORD or PSC has not addressed.
I called them to discuss it and the answer both had were to cheat the tie rod ends so that they limit the travel by having them turned opposite each other on the tie rod thus limiting the rotating slop.
I did not like this, it caused more stress on the tie rods than should be there and the tie rods are not meant to be stressed to their rotating limits.
I installed the system per the directions, got everything working to find the tie rod rotation issue. I called Ord and PSC and they did not have a solution, just told me most people just live with it that way.
I then determined that both ends of the cylinder have to be controlled but the rod end needed some movement. I built this fixed strap with pivot points and it fixed the problem.

I welcome those who wish to build their own Hydro assist system, maybe they can make one better than what is already out there. I am simply sharing my experience with the kit I installed. I am sharing this with ORD. I think they should sell it with every kit they sell, I can promise all here that it is a necessary improvement when installing the PSC kit on a D60 axle with cross over high steer.

 

[richingalveston]

sorry, olly hondro, the drawing posted was from tim.

 

[richingalveston]

here is a pic of the drivers side of the cylinder mount. the tabs are about 6 inches tall so the cylinder is in line with the tie rod. The end of the cylinder has a swivel eye at the bolt location so the cylinder moves on the other end.

 

[olly hondro]

Am having a shop that I trust look into this. The truck has 4 inch lift , am looking to take 2 inch out, actually. Will be going to larger diameter tires yet the truck needs to clear the garage door

 

[richingalveston]

I wish you luck with what you are trying to do. I have found 4 inches is minimum lift for cross over and the cylinder is bigger than the tie rods and steering link. After installing my set up, you might squeeze it into a 3 inch lift but I cannot see getting it less than that. ORD makes a high clearance cross member that may help.
I am running 39 inch tires but they are only 11 wide on 8 inch rims with 4 inch back space so they center in the wheel wells nicely. I made big modifications to the front fender to get the clearance. I have zero rates in right now that I am considering removing and dropping the lift from 5 to 4. I am waiting to get it off road and check all of my clearances.

since you have bead locks, you can always air down to get it in the garage. Good excuse to get that on board air system.

Rich

 

[skysix]

pics of fender/wheelwell mods?

 

[richingalveston]

fender trimming

The fenders are not finished but all the cutting has been done. I first had my axle one inch forward but found that the tie rod was going to hit the pitman arm so I moved the axle back to the stock location.

I removed wheel well and then cut the fender along the bend of the flare (bottom to top) with a sawsall. Don't cut all the way through at the top, there will be a small piece left at the top. The 1 inch piece that is bent around the inside of the wheel well. The cut piece is pulled out and pushed back and then re-attached. I still have to take it apart, treat and paint all of the cut areas. At the bottom I have to add a small piece of metal. I will then rivet along the seam and bondo it to where it looks factory again. I was going to weld it but the heat will disturb all of the paint on the inner fenders and lead to future rusting. Even if I take the fender off I cannot get paint on the backside of many of the surfaces.

After the fender is cut and screwed back together (riveted in the future) you then put the inner fender back in and have to cut it at the back to make it wider and also bend the part closest to the cab back further. I still have a gap in the inner fender that I will fill with sheet metal and weld since the fender well can be painted both sides.

The result is an almost 4 inch gain in fender clearance at the back of the wheel and about a 1.5 inch flare out. Still retains the factory bent edge.

The front of the fender I trimmed it up to where the fender was double walled. It needs some body work also but not much.

The tires are a true 39 X11 inch measurement and with 5 inches of lift I have room to spare on the fender and no rubbing. I have to do some more off road testing but if it works out I am going to pull the zero rates out and drop it an inch.

Hope these directions are clear enough. I used tape to make a pattern of the first side I cut, then reversed it for the other side so both of my cuts match. I still have the pattern if any body wants to use it.

 

[Cucvnut]

Change the sector shaft on the 4x4 box to a 2wd sector shaft and you dont need to change boxes, also on hydro i mounted my ram in line with the axle not on top of it, never had any issues.