Error processing when restarting after a long period of storage

PHOENIX-GER

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Bad luck, man. But before you take heads off, try fish those broken glowplug particles off with magnet. GP holes are small but if you take injector off?
Nothing can be pulled out of the hole because the glow plug is stuck as a whole. It is - we call it mushroomed. In order not to cause more damage, the cylinder head comes down again. It then allows us to take another look at the cylinder surfaces to see if there has been any damage.
All together again around 350 euros to repair the damage. But I still don't know which glow plugs to use so that the same thing doesn't happen again
I know about the different glow plug modalities and thought to be on the safe side with the Börk Ecotherm...
 

cucvrus

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[U]PHOENIX-GER[/U] Save the cash for now. If you have a lodged glow plugf and it is in the back of the head I would just remove the inner fender apron and get in there. I would remove the fuel delivery nozzle and get in there with a 45* mini vise grip.
Angled Long Needle Nose Pliers Set – 11” & 7” 90 Degree Bent Nose Plie –  ION TOOL

Or something similar and capture the tip and break it off. I have done it over 100 times. No head needs removed. It is in the pre chamber. Good Luck.
 

german m1008

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I have also 13G glowpugs, but i have manual switch. 10 seconds and Blazer is running.
Do you have original setup for glowplugs - i.e. 24V to resistor pack and from there 12V to GP relay? If so, then if one or more plugs are defective (yes, new plug can be defective too), voltage raises for other glowplugs and can burn them.
As i understand, GP controller just measures engine temperature and calculates lenght/time of heat.

At least this, what i learned here from older topics.

Yes, one thing more - there are glowplugs, that are self-regulating, so they dont burn easily. But i do´nt remember manufacturer or numbers...
……..AcDelco 60G
 

german m1008

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there is now another problem
After the engine started getting worse and worse, we checked the new glow plugs. Despite the intact pre-glow module and the correct glow plugs, all plugs are defective. Two are stuck and we have to take the cylinder head down to remove them.
I have no explanation for it. Does anyone know a reason how this can happen. There have only been a few attempts to start since the module and glow plugs were replaced.
I thought the module prevents the glow plugs from overheating.

We used this glowplugs
Neue verstärkte Glühkerzen für Chevy K30 / K5.
Börg Ecotherm 5AC13G
…… .something is definitely wired incorrectly.

You can't have that much bad luck
 

PHOENIX-GER

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That is useful advice. I'm still considering taking the cylinder head down. At the last attempt to start, where it started very badly, I had a little white smoke and now suspect a defective cylinder head gasket or after worse damage. I stopped engine immediatly. After every mistake that has been dealt with, a new one follows. So far I don't know for sure what is causing all of this. I am concerned that if I have fixed everything again, that the error will repeat itself because I do not know the cause. As the engine started getting worse and worse, we also used start-up spray, which in Germany was traded as a start pilot

Start Pilot.jpg
I am not sure if this result in that damage as a lot of said it is not for Diesel Engine useful and can cause damage.

I now have two options. I remove the glow plug as you described, install new ones and try to start. If I'm lucky, everything will be fine or he continues to smoke white. That would mean I have to take the cylinder head down after all, or else I calm down my conscience directly and accept the cost of getting a look inside the engine.

We will do it as we always do with such decisions - first have a coffee, sleep on it for a night and then evaluate the facts again the next morning
Usually with the same result as what immediately came to mind but we feel better with it :ROFLMAO:

Shouldn't the glow plug module have prevented this damage to the glow plugs? How can I prevent that for the future. We had - estimated - 30 start attempts with the module, whereby the start attempts were done after the 3x at the latest until we had solved the problem with the new generator 2 - which had not loaded. Because after that, the batteries were too weak for further start attempts.
Can the glow plug module work incorrectly? I always thought either it was working correctly or not at all....

I have read that some people also use the 60G glow plugs with the glow plug module but have to change the connections. These should not then burn through and get stuck. Something I can't really imagine myself ... The military chose exactly this version because the vehicles should always be ready for use and actually need little maintenance.
Nevertheless, if I buy the Börk again, I am concerned that the same disaster will repeat itself

Sometimes I just want to give up but somehow this prevents my sense of honor as well as the promise to my wife to get the Chevy back on the road for her. 40 years of mechanical engineering and vehicle experience and now I'm supposed to fail because of this "old" technology ....
 

cucvrus

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When the glow plug wait light is lit. The bottom stud on the under hood firewall solenoid should have electric current. When the wait light goes off that stud should have no current. it may cycle a few times after a cold start but it should have no current when the engine is operating at temperature. I have seen a few of the glow plug solenoids that are not the correct ones and they send current to the glow plugs at all times. Or the correct solenoid that is stuck in the on position. That can get expensive with the price of Glow Plugs. I use the A C Delco 13 G glow plugs in every CUCV I owned and work on. They have been great for over 27 years of private ownership. I wish I could help. Once the glow plug system is set up and not hacked it works fine in the stock configuration. Once again. Good Luck. But don't pull a cylinder head for a swelled glow plug. It will come out thru the fuel nozzle hole. Clamp I and break it. It will spin right out.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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cucvrus that means I should check if the solenoid is working properly. I can hear the mechanical noise and it can be also measured. I can still remove the cylinder head if it indicates a defective gasket the next time I start it. 1998 - 2005 I only renewed the glow plugs once. I don't know how old the existing ones were. I got the car directly from the army depot. I used usually 13G not Börk. Never had any problem with glowplugs.
You are very helpful, many of us benefit from your knowledge and we all like to talk to each other and share the information.
It will take a while for that job as my holidays ended last week.
I report how it goes on.
 

cucvrus

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Keep in mind the glow plug tip is not magnetic. (non magnetic) Use care when extracting the glow plug tip from the pre chamber when you break off the swelled to if the need arises. I have done it and it requires a steady hand and I removed the wheel and tire, entire wheel well apron and the steering shaft in the past to get in there and work. It seems drastic but not as drastic as removing the cylinder heads. I mean once the cylinder heads are removed one does not just take them and put them back on the engine with new gaskets and call the job complete. In my shop if a head comes off any engine I have it checked at the machine shop and checked for cracks and levelness and surface condition. Not to mention valve seals and seating. No half fast work keep it worth doing. And as I reassemble the parts and wheel house I clean and coat as I go. Make the job worth while. Cost less later down the road and assures a quality job was done. New torque to yield head bolts and gaskets are not that much money. Beats doing it a second time. Once and done no matter what my adversaries may say. Say what you will. You will. Good Luck. Have a Great Day and report back once you have the swelled glow plugs out. I am happy to help. One day I want to come to Germany with one of the M1009's. Until then keep doing the Great job you are doing keeping your old CUCV on the road.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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CUCVRUS
I totally agree. That's why I completely overhauled the engine after 15 years of storage. A lot of work just as a precaution because of the long time storage. Of course, all wear limits were checked and the usual wear parts such as timing chain and wheels as well as valve seats were replaced. Compression, piston rings, pistons, running surfaces were all fine. The cylinder head has been measured and checked, and everything is fine too. All work carried out according to the workshop manuals. It's my first V8 diesel but not my first engine overhaul. I only had difficulties with the American truck electrics with regard to the glow plug system and the generator control, but was able to overcome them with your help. I would not overhaul the injection pump myself, I would actually commission it from a special workshop. But we are not there yet. I also overhauled the gearbox myself.
I know almost every screw on the vehicle personally ... what I - although known - was not aware of how much is broken by the storage. I know the saying vehicles will be failure if they not run, but I have never stored a vehicle before and i learned it now on the hard way.
You can be sure, no matter how I get the glow plugs out, if the cylinder head is removed, a renewed check/inspection and replacement of possible defective parts is safe.

If you want to visit Germany you are always welcome with us.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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I think I should fill my suitcases with CUCV parts and the clothing and any other needs for my visit could be exchanged in trade at the airport. I am going to shipping another CUCV M1009 over to Germany again. How much cargo is allowed inside?
I have no experience with it and cannot help you with that question. But I know how much effort it takes to buy something privately from the USA with customs and fees. For that reason alone, I try to buy in Germany as much as possible.
 

Rutjes

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I have no experience with it and cannot help you with that question. But I know how much effort it takes to buy something privately from the USA with customs and fees. For that reason alone, I try to buy in Germany as much as possible.
I have mentioned it before, and in no way do I intend to advertise but try Richard at usa2you.nl. Don't be fooled by the .nl, he can get parts shipped to any (EU?) country and save you a lot of money! He'll get customs charges down and as he ships TONS of stuff yearly, he gets great volume discounts through FedEx.
 

Rutjes

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I have mentioned it before, and in no way do I intend to advertise but try Richard at usa2you.nl. Don't be fooled by the .nl, he can get parts shipped to any (EU?) country and save you a lot of money! He'll get customs charges down and as he ships TONS of stuff yearly, he gets great volume discounts through FedEx. By the time it gets to you it is cheaper then the part bought locally. The guy selling it locally has to pay import and shipping fees as well and make a living of it. Just get quote from him and compare.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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I have mentioned it before, and in no way do I intend to advertise but try Richard at usa2you.nl. Don't be fooled by the .nl, he can get parts shipped to any (EU?) country and save you a lot of money! He'll get customs charges down and as he ships TONS of stuff yearly, he gets great volume discounts through FedEx.
I live next to the Dutch border. I now have a corresponding list of dealers in Europe and there are also dealers in the USA who deliver to Europe. Based on the import regulations, this is too time-consuming for many, which I can understand. There was also an import service like USA2YOU in NL in Germany. I do not know if this still exists. It was quite expensive. For the tank, I compared what it costs me to import myself through friends in the USA and when I buy from a dealer here. In the end, it was only a few euros cheaper so that I saved myself time and dealing with the authorities.

If I actually need something that I can't get here, I'll make an inquiry to Richard. At the moment I don't know anything. The injection pump in the repair process is shipped by us ourselves and fortunately there are opportunities here in Germany.
I didn't know this service before and it is good to know about that option.
Thank you for sharing.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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I took the cylinder head down last weekend. Fortunately no cracks and no distortion, but the valve seats Valve seems to be a little bit leaky.
The usual liquid test shows this result. I suspect the constant bad combustion and the starting difficulties caused this. This was all done before restart after storage by overhaul the engine. It also explains the smoke development, although we disagree as to whether the smoke was white or blue. There was no defect on the cylinderhead gasket. The spare parts have been ordered.
This are the both sticky glowplugs.
20211002_162329.jpg
I was then able to pull out the glow plugs with a better approach and a little more pressure. That would have gone well, I would have dismantled all parts on the side as CUCVRUS described it. But then I wouldn't have noticed the leaking valves. Somehow I had the feeling that something was wrong.
I also ordered a new solenoid and diesel pump because they haven't been exchanged since 1998 ... as a possible cause of our problem. Then in the end only the injection pump remains
 
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