M151 rollover analysis? Looking for info

[saddamsnightmare]

July 11th, 2008.

Gentlemen:

The M151 MUTT, was designed like all Army tactical vehicles, for slow speed off road work. They had a deserved reputation for rolling over under the right conditions... IF Ford had used the quarter leaf spring suspension that the USMC M422A-1's had, there would have been very few roll overs.... The fault was in the suspension (and, of course young Turks behind the wheel)....
IF, IF, you are very careful, the M151 MUTT is no worse the the unmodified CJ-s of the period, but one has to know how to drive a FWD with those characteristics, and plan accordingly. There is a small element of chance that a situation IS going to arise that will fulfill the rollover parameters and be beyond your control.... IF SO, nice knowing you... This is the element we face every day with both new and used vehicles, the problem with our MV's is that they were designed for a specific task, they are generally in the high 30's (age), and sometimes their maintenance was rather indifferent..... leading us to consider careful maintenance, operation, and in some cases, safety modifications to permit them to continue to operate with a modicum of safety.
I would observe, that while the M35's have certain tendencies in handling and braking, due to the number of these trucks getting out in the civillian market to people who have never driven a medium or heavy off road truck, I would expect to see a rise shortly in accidents caused both by operator error and vehicular failures..... Witness the rise in civillian SUV/FWD accidents in the 1970's,1980's,1990's until today when hotshot civillians try to drive their SUV's with the same technicues they used on their Accords or Lexus's...... What happened.... the safe SUV drivers got to pay for the morons who bent the sheet metal......
Just my worth, but if you are needing an operable M151 safety hazard taken off your hands, I'm willing to take on North Eastern and Eastern Texas cases for a small handling fee.........

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" Desert Storm and Vietnam Veteran Deuce
1968 Johnson Corp M105A2 cargo trailer
1967 Hercules MEP023A gas Gen-Set APU
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Unimog, S.404.114 MB

 

[Power Giant]

Eight years later: I rolled an M151 while stationed at MCB Camp Hansen, Okinawa, in 1978. I was 19 years old, and had no off road driving experience, or education. Nevertheless, I was volunteered to be a driver. I was delivering water to a mortar platoon in the field. I got lost and ended up driving across a sidehill. The Mutt went over and I held on for dear life. We rolled about 5 times and ended up upside down, underwater. How I wasn't thrown from the vehicle, I'll never know. I dug myself out and a couple of Grunts that saw the whole thing came over to help me out. I was okay, except for a deep gash in my scalp. The USMC tried to get me to reimburse them for the value of the M151. I got me a lawyer. They flew me on a CH-46 helicopter all the way from Camp Hansen to Yokosuka Naval Base, on the mainland of Japan. The lawyer got me off the hook. The chopper ride most assuredly cost the Marines way more than the value of any M151. Will wonders never cease?

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 15th, 2016.


Interestingly enough, the AM General M422A1 built for the US Marine Corps used a half elliptic spring that sat forward (or behind) and on top of the Swing arm pivot, thus limiting either upward or downward deflections. Other then lacking power, the M422A1 was virtually a Porsche among 1/4 ton trucks in the era of the Vietnam War. Very nimble on the steering and could climb slopes at angles that the other 1/4 ton trucks could not even begin to approach (I often took a 45" slope diagonally with opposite wheels corner wheels in the air in a slow and careful entry and exit to the slopes in question) in cross country work. The problem was that they were so light in some parts of their suspension components as to be almost expendable in terms of any battle damage.

If Ford had thought ahead, they could have engineered a much better suspension system then what they saddled the M151 with. And, yes, they were infamous for rolling over, but then so were the M38/M38A (CJ-3 & 5's) and DJ-5's if you exceeded their performance envelope in a tight turn (above about 18 MPH). The trouble is not inherently in the vehicle itself, its the loose nut beyond the top of the steering column.

 

[poof]

I think ti was Redd Foxx said it best. simple mathmatics... a 2000lb vehicle gose over a 10lb black cat just once, with nothing left over..swerving to not hit one isnt worth your familys life....



.

Don't swerve! If you want to make a lane change glide over don't jerk it over. If a dog runs out in front of you run the dog over don't try to swerve to miss it. And never a left or right turn at speeds over 20 MPH. That even includes clover leaf on and off ramps. I try to straighten them out when ever I can.

 

[HUMVEE1]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqLbcHYN1hM

 

[Artillerydan]

First installation of ROPS in an none ROPS M151 = 25% loss in value

M151 & M151A1 rear suspension layout was the same as the front and the movement of the A arms. In line with "frame" in a Fast sharp turn can cause them to lift and or tuck an d or rollover.

M151A2 Rear suspension arms are 90 degrees to the "frame". They can not tuck under.

Can you roll an M151 , A1 sure, M151A2 sure, can you roll a 2016 Jeep Cherokee yep.

I will tell you in the 30 some years in this hobby and owner of LOTS of M151s the only time I had any issue was hot dogging around the corner in a M151A1C (recoiless rifle jeep with overload springs). Hey your 20 something and not thinking all the time..... No flip or roll over but I felt it get weird. That was an instant reality check....