NC Motor Vehicle regulations

[kfrosty]

After an hour of reading through posts of varying opinions on NC, I'm starting this thread to document the process of what all is involved in purchasing, registering and driving a 5 Ton in the state of NC.

If anybody has an FACTS which are accompanied by links NC statutes, please post.

I'm starting with the following NC Statute on Motor Vehicles.

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByChapter/Chapter_20.pdf

20-4.2
(1) "Commercial vehicle" means any vehicle which is operated in furtherance of any commercial enterprise.

(2a) Class A Motor Vehicle. - A combination of motor vehicles that meets either of the following descriptions:

a. Has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.
b. Has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

(2b) Class B Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following:
a. A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds.
b. A combination of motor vehicles that includes as part of the combination a towing unit that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and a towed unit that has a GVWR of less than 10,001 pounds.

(2c) Class C Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following:
a. A single motor vehicle not included in Class B.
b. A combination of motor vehicles not included in Class A or Class B.

(3c) Commercial Drivers License (CDL). - A license issued by a state to an individual who resides in the state that authorizes the individual to drive a class of commercial motor vehicle. A "nonresident commercial drivers license (NRCDL)" is issued by a state to an individual who resides in a foreign jurisdiction.

(3d) Commercial Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following motor vehicles that are designed or used to transport passengers or property:
a. A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.
b. A Class B motor vehicle.
c. A Class C motor vehicle that meets either of the following descriptions:
Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.
2. Is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with 49 C.F.R. Part 172, Subpart F.

(Note - Per my call several months to the Highway patrol, Commercial is if you're for hire when determining whether the vehicle is commercial. However, even if not for hire, for tagging purposes, you still have to purchase commercial tags for anything over 10,001lbs I believe. (Needs verifying.)

(12f) Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). - The value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight a vehicle is capable of safely hauling. The GVWR of a combination vehicle is the GVWR of the power unit plus the GVWR of the towed unit or units. When a vehicle is determined by an enforcement officer to be structurally altered in any way from the manufacturer's original design in an attempt to increase the hauling capacity of the vehicle, the GVWR of that vehicle shall be deemed to be the greater of the license weight or the total weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles for the purpose of enforcing this Chapter. For the purpose of classification of commercial drivers license and skills testing, the manufacturer's GVWR shall be used.

For anybody thinking they can go the RV/Motorhome route.

d2. Motor home or house car. - A vehicular unit, designed to provide temporary living quarters, built into as an integral part, or permanently attached to, a self-propelled motor vehicle chassis or van. The vehicle must provide at least four of the following facilities: cooking, refrigeration or icebox, self-contained toilet, heating or air conditioning, a portable water supply system including a faucet and sink, separate 110-125 volt electrical power supply, or an LP gas supply.



(32a) Recreational Vehicle. - A vehicular type unit primarily designed as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use that either has its own motive power or is mounted on, or towed by, another vehicle. The basic entities are camping trailer, fifth-wheel travel trailer, motor home, travel trailer, and truck camper.

a. Motor home. - As defined in G.S. 20-4.01(27)d2.

b. Travel trailer. - A vehicular unit mounted on wheels, designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, and of a size or weight that does not require a special highway movement permit when towed by a motorized vehicle.

c. Fifth-wheel trailer. - A vehicular unit mounted on wheels designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, of a size and weight that does not require a special highway movement permit and designed to be towed by a motorized vehicle that contains a towing mechanism that is mounted above or forward of the tow vehicle's rear axle.

d. Camping trailer. - A vehicular portable unit mounted on wheels and constructed with collapsible partial side walls that fold for towing by another vehicle and unfold at the campsite to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use.

e. Truck camper. - A portable unit that is constructed to provide temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel use, consisting of a roof, floor, and sides and is designed to be loaded onto and unloaded from the bed of a pickup truck.

(32b) Regular Drivers License. - A license to drive a commercial motor vehicle that is exempt from the commercial drivers license requirements or a noncommercial motor vehicle.

20-4.2.

(1) "Commercial vehicle" means any vehicle which is operated in furtherance of any commercial enterprise.

A license authorizes the holder of the license to drive any vehicle included in the class of the license and any vehicle included in a lesser class of license, except a vehicle for which an endorsement is required. To drive a vehicle for which an endorsement is required, a person must obtain both a license and an endorsement for the vehicle. A regular drivers license is considered a lesser class of license than its commercial counterpart.


The classes of regular drivers licenses and the motor vehicles that can be driven with each class of license are:


(1) Class A. - A Class A license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:

a. A Class A motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20-37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

b. A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

(2) Class B. - A Class B license authorizes the holder to drive any Class B motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20-37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

(3) Class C. - A Class C license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:

a. A Class C motor vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle.

b. When operated by a volunteer member of a fire department, a rescue squad, or an emergency medical service (EMS) in the performance of duty, a Class A or Class B fire-fighting, rescue, or EMS motor vehicle or a combination of these vehicles.

c. A combination of noncommercial motor vehicles that have a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds but less than 26,001 pounds. This sub-subdivision does not apply to a Class C license holder less than 18 years of age.

The Commissioner may assign a unique motor vehicle to a class that is different from the class in which it would otherwise belong.

20-37.16 Content of license; classifications and endorsement; fees.

(e) The requirements for a commercial drivers license do not apply to vehicles used for personal use such as recreational vehicles. A commercial drivers license is also waived for the following classes of vehicles as permitted by regulation of the United States Department of Transportation:


(1) Vehicles owned or operated by the Department of Defense, including the National Guard, while they are driven by active duty military personnel, or members of the National Guard when on active duty, in the pursuit of military purposes.

(2) Any vehicle when used as firefighting or emergency equipment for the purpose of preserving life or property or to execute emergency governmental functions.

(3) A farm vehicle that meets all of the following criteria:
a. Is controlled and operated by the farmer or the farmer's employee and used exclusively for farm use.
b. Is used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies, both to or from a farm.
c. Is not used in the operations of a for-hire motor carrier.
d. Is used within 150 miles of the farmer's farm.
A farm vehicle includes a forestry vehicle that meets the listed criteria when applied to the forestry operation.

20-118.1.
Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more or any vehicle transporting hazardous materials that is required to be placarded under 49 C.F.R. § 171-180 must enter a permanent weigh station or temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic transponder for the purpose of being electronically screened for compliance, or weighed, or inspected.

IRP - Only required for hire.


§ 20-79.4. Special registration plates.

(90) Historic Vehicle Owner. - Issuable for a motor vehicle that is at least 35 years old measured from the date of manufacture. The plate for an historic vehicle shall bear the word "Antique" unless the vehicle is a model year 1943 or older. The plate for a vehicle that is a model year 1943 or older shall bear the word "Antique" or the words "Horseless Carriage", at the option of the vehicle owner.

Based on what I can tell, a 5-ton would need a weighted tag which has the same fees of a Commercial plate.

Still need to figure out what type of inspection the 5 tons will require.

 

[Andrmorr]

Thanks for the thread and info excerpt...I'm hoping to register my M930A2 in the next month (when the SF97 gets here) and am trying to get educated before I go to DMV...any new info or insights to date?

P.S. your signature info is backwards (unless you meant Charlotte Canada, aayh!)

 

[lino]

Interesting timing. I just posted some relevant stuff on that a couple minutes ago.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?67858-Fuel-sticker-viloation-in-NC/page19

The DMV is only part of your problem.

If you don't go for "historic" or "parade" plates, which I didn't investigate, you need a weighted (or Farm) plate. If you weight it for over 26000 lbs, you need to have a Class A or B license (which is a CDL in North Carolina). Your 5 ton probably weighs less than 26000 lbs empty, so you could get plates at 26k, but you'd be in for trouble if you were caught weighing over 26k, so you *should* only operate unloaded (or very lightly) if that's what you choose.

You also need fuel stickers here in NC, because you have 3 axles.

Inspection rules are the same as any other vehicle (at least if you stay in non-CDL territory). So, for pre 1995, a safety inspection is all you need, newer than that, you'll have to hope your truck has an OBDII port that works. If it's more than 35 years old, then no inspection is required. If it needs to be inspected, I'd recommend a shop familiar with trucks like yours to make your life easier.

The best advice I can give is that everyone you talk to will be an expert, tell you what to do, and will be certain about what they are saying (I resemble this remark myself right now), however, many times that person will be wrong.

Best of luck!

ciao
lino

 

[Ford Mechanic]

I've got mine registered at 26k lbs and just get regular a state inspection. The only other inspection that I'm aware of is a Federal inspection, and you only need that if your commercially hauling across state lines. I've got my CDL's but I wouldn't take the driving test in the 5 ton. The officials are very picky on stuff, the absence of a yellow air brake pop-off in the cab I think would blow their mind as you have to show them you know how to test it.


I saw this one the other day on my regitratration G.S. 105-449.47 it says that "A VEHICLE WITH A COMBINED WEIGHT EXCEDDING 26000LBS OR HAVING 3 AXLES REGARDLESS OF WEIGHT MUST DISPLAY A FUEL DECAL" So I have to do some homework also on how to comply with this one. What sucks is that I've been running for almost 2 years and just happened to see it, DMV never asked about it.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

lino, I'm understanding that you appied for fuel stickers at the DOR correct? Not DMV? Hmmm, I don't have a DOR locally, reckon I'll have to call one.

 

[lino]

lino, I'm understanding that you appied for fuel stickers at the DOR correct? Not DMV? Hmmm, I don't have a DOR locally, reckon I'll have to call one.

Yes Fuel Decals are with Dept of Revenue, excise tax division. The DMV doesn't care at all about the decals.
Most people with these trucks don't have them and have never had issues... But then there' s always this one time...

Anyway, I wanted to make an effort to do things "by the book" if at all possible, so I ran down the fuel decal issue.

I've also heard that if you apply online it could take a long time, if ever, for it to get processed, but those were angry online rants, not sure of how accurate.


ciao
lino

'88 M35A2C

 

[Wayne from Maine]

I registered my 923a2 last August in Maine, Commercially. Apparently, I do not have to display fuel stickers as the truck will not cross state lines, however I should keep all fuel receipts. I also had to get a DOT number which for below 26,000 does not need to be displayed but needs to be in the paperwork in the vehicle

 

[mikey]

If you weight it for over 26000 lbs, you need to have a Class A or B license (which is a CDL in North Carolina). Your 5 ton probably weighs less than 26000 lbs empty, so you could get plates at 26k, but you'd be in for trouble if you were caught weighing over 26k, so you *should* only operate unloaded (or very lightly) if that's what you choose.

I am NOT an expert on NC law. However, this is the biggest problem I see with people giving advice on registering 5 tons and I see it often and in MANY states. You cannot legally pick your own weight. As per the original post, by Kfrosty, NC law appears similar to PA law:

20-4.2
(2b) Class B Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following:
a. A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds.

Unless the law has changed since the OP started this thread, NC goes by GVWR, NOT GVW. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, NOT Gross Vehicle Weight. The GVWR is not the "weight" of the vehicle, but the maximum weight that the vehicle is rated for, including passengers and cargo. You can find this info on your data plate. Yes, lots of people do "pick their own weight" when they register an MV and yes you can probably get away with it, but it's not legal. There are no 5tons with a GVWR less than 26k. So, if you are one who knowingly skirts the law to avoid a CDL or to pay lower fees, good luck, I'm not judging you. However, if you're someone who wants to be legal, then you're misinformed about GWV vs GVWR and you should look into that before you get pulled over and wind up with some very expensive fines.

I am not the registration police. Do what you will. I'm not posting here to convince those who know they are breaking the law to repent, I'm posting here for people who find this thread and are lead to believe that they can, in fact, legally choose their own weight when registering their 5ton. That is not legal.

Mikey

 

[lino]

I am NOT an expert on NC law. However, this is the biggest problem I see with people giving advice on registering 5 tons and I see it often and in MANY states. You cannot legally pick your own weight.

20-4.2
(2b) Class B Motor Vehicle. - Any of the following:
a. A single motor vehicle that has a GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds.

Mikey

This is an excellent point. And one that I missed checking out on my own (what else I missed, I hope is small).
I'd heard that you can "pick your weight" - and it serves me right for going by what I heard.
This was backed up when I went to DMV and they asked me how much I wanted it weighted for, so I told them and didn't give it another thought.

...time to eat my hat...

Fortunately, I have a 2.5 ton, so it's still not an issue for me, but that does make it look like you'd need a CDL to be fully by the book with a 5 ton.

And on that note, I'll take Mikey's advice and quit giving counsel. I'll just stick to recounting situations I've found.


ciao
lino

 

[6X6WES]

I,m getting ready to register two 5-tons a 813 and 936 and have been talking to my local license troopers office in NC he couldn't answer for sure if these trucks could be registered as exempt cdl vehicles or not . he referred me to Raleigh and after talking to him for quite a while what he told me " you can drive any (size) truck you want you NEED a classified or cdl that covers that truck. you can go the non cdl if you make no money from it and it is personal only. but you still need a classified license that covers that truck and the med card would be exempt . in my opinion you need to learn these trucks systems and how they work anyway so everyone and you are safer which is the reason for the cdl or classified any way. a class b license is good for any thing above 26001 lbs and a class a is needed for any towed load above 10,000 lbs . I was also told at license plate agency I had to register it commercial due to the weight. they also want my 72 813 inspected before they will give me a title but gave me a plate and a year to get it inspected. I don't know why because I never needed my 65 f100 inspected? i haven't titled the wrecker yet so I will see. I've been studying and am ready to take my tests any time soon. wanted to get the trucks in order first.

 

[Wayne from Maine]

Please help me sort this out.

I am not trying to skirt the law, Having a class B and paying additional fees for weight registration is not a problem either. I registered my truck for 26,000 to avoid putting decals and stenciled DOT numbers on the doors. I will use it for revenue purposes, but below 26,000 lbs.

During the process of getting the truck ready for inspection and registration the issue of weight came up. The Data plate does specify the GVW. However the Maximum load weight rating for on and off road were determined to not be the GVWR, as the Data plate did not give a specific or maximum GVWR. These numbers are military operating weight restrictions.

 

[Warthog]

HEADS UP !!!!!!

On this website we do allow discussion of vehicle registration.

However we do not allow discussion of insurance or driver registration (ie. CDL). Too many variables, things are constantly changing and too much BS is posted.

Keep this thread on track about vehicle registration or it will all go bye-bye.

 

[mikey]

This is an excellent point. And one that I missed checking out on my own (what else I missed, I hope is small).
I'd heard that you can "pick your weight" - and it serves me right for going by what I heard.
This was backed up when I went to DMV and they asked me how much I wanted it weighted for, so I told them and didn't give it another thought.

...time to eat my hat...

Fortunately, I have a 2.5 ton, so it's still not an issue for me, but that does make it look like you'd need a CDL to be fully by the book with a 5 ton.

And on that note, I'll take Mikey's advice and quit giving counsel. I'll just stick to recounting situations I've found.


ciao
lino

Please help me sort this out.

I am not trying to skirt the law, Having a class B and paying additional fees for weight registration is not a problem either. I registered my truck for 26,000 to avoid putting decals and stenciled DOT numbers on the doors. I will use it for revenue purposes, but below 26,000 lbs.

During the process of getting the truck ready for inspection and registration the issue of weight came up. The Data plate does specify the GVW. However the Maximum load weight rating for on and off road were determined to not be the GVWR, as the Data plate did not give a specific or maximum GVWR. These numbers are military operating weight restrictions.

The best thing I can tell you both is what the mods always say when they are not saying read the tm or when cupcake is not fighting with Tony Cologne. Nobody here is qualified to give legal advice and any legal advice given should be taken for exactly what it is. Free advice.

Now with that out of the way, it would be beautiful for in our hobby answers to our questions regarding registration, insurance, and usage of our vehicles and trailers was black and white. If the answers were readily available and always accurate, or at least sometimes accurate. The sad fact is that many people want to do the right thing, but we cannot get the correct answers to our questions, and even worse, we can do the wrong thing without anyone from our state stopping us or correcting us.

Even in the great commonwealth of PA, if you ask 10 different people from PennDot, local or state law enforcement, you'll probably get 10 different answers. Where I live in NEPA, we have roaming DOT checkpoints and I cross one at least once every two weeks. They have them because gas drilling, stone and logging are the two professions up here and it's pretty easy for the PA to make money by pulling trucks over. I speak to others in PA who have never seen a DOT cop. I know them by name and I don't even drive commercially. And because of that "blessing" I can tell you first hand that each DOT cop that hopped in my deuce (they refuse to use your registration, they insist on seeing the data plate) has used the data plate to calculate the GVWR by combining GVW + the cross country load. Also, when I register my vehicles, my title company makes me bring a form to a certified mechanic to have the GVWR verified. And they too use the data plate, vehicle weight + cross country load capacity. I know most people in PA are not required to get the weight form signed. So it depends, even within a state, who you talk to.

Because of the lack of available answers, I reached out to my DOT buddies and I'm meeting with the head of PennDot enforcement in the next few weeks:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?131061-Ask-the-top-PA-DOT-Trooper-anything!

I will get answers for everyone, right from the guys with the ticket books, to any question posted in that thread. I also invite any members to join me for the meeting.

I know this will only benefit PA residents, but perhaps others on this site can take the initiative to do something similar in other states to help others who are honestly trying to do the right thing, but can't get answers even from those who should have them.

Ultimately, and I hate to sound like "that guy", it helps our hobby to be legal. The more people we have breaking the law and getting caught, the higher the risk that we will lose a lot of the privileges that we have today. And now with this new exposure to our hobby from mainstream media due to HMMWV's, we run an even greater risk of having a new group of people in our hobby who can contribute to the hobby either positively or negatively.

Last bit of advice, and this is what prompted me to reach out to DOT. Even while I am trying to do things right, I'm often stuck with the question of "who do I trust?". The guy at PennDot or the DOT cop. I always put my faith in the guy with the ticket book. He is the guy who has the last word. Reach out to a DOT cop in your state. Not a street cop, not a state cop, an actual "I do this every day, DOT inspections are my job" DOT cop.

Good luck and I hope this post helps someone, some day, to avoid the thousands of dollars in fines that a friend of mine just got in WI for driving his 5ton without a CDL because everyone told him he didn't need one because his truck was not commercial.

Mikey

 

[Warthog]

thread closed