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What things do I look for when buying a FLU419

coolhandmatt

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Hawaii
I have wanted one of these 419 for a long time and have seen a few of them. I even bid on one but didn't get it at a government auction. I found one used not to far away and am going to look at it but was wondering if there is certain things anyone could recommend looking for that would cause serious heartache to fix and could be deal killers beside the obvious. Thanks in advance!
 

The FLU farm

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There are several coming up for auction, so don't give up on that approach.
The good thing with the GP auctions is that you can check out the very telling oil analysis results ahead of time.
The bad thing with buying one "first hand" is that it seems inevitable to have a few leaking hydraulic cylinders, due to lack of use/dirt accumulation/paint followed by the GP "test drive".
So far I've had to repair one on the SEE and three on the HMMH - the latter having very low miles and hours. No big deal, but still.
If the used one you've found has been operated, and fixed as needed, you'll be ahead in that department. But possibly also pay a premium for it.
Since I'm learning as I go about the Unimog portion of these machines, I'm not the one to give advice about the vehicle itself.
But I can say that I have not regretted buying either one. They're fun to work on, to drive, and to perform work with.
 
35
2
8
Location
Vallejo, CA
Your primary concern should be checking the operation of the transmission. Spent some time with a customer that recently bought a truck at auction that the engine was not running. Engine was an easy fix cleaning fuel system, and priming. However, had it been running then the fact that the transmission was toast probably would have been discovered.........

I would personally take a bad engine over a bad transmission on a SEE/HMMH. Expect 40+ hours for a transmission replacement on the SEE.

Cheers,

Scott
 

coolhandmatt

New member
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Location
Hawaii
Thanks for the responses. I bought one. Right now I'm just in the process of shipping it and then all I need to do is give Scott at EI a credit card and parts lists. I'm predicting a 2 year project to make it look loved again.
 

Lordicon

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Mason NH
I just bought one myself.... Been reading the whole tm all 5 of them... Picking it up saturday. It has........ 78 miles and all its tools.... Mint condition.... My new toy.
 

The FLU farm

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Wow, you lucky dog.
Mine was far from mint and had lots of miles on the odo. But it has served me very well so far, and at times I'm working the snot out of it. And it did come with the tools, which was a pleasant surprise.
One thing I'd recommend doing early on, after checking fluids, lubing everything, etc., is to change the "hydraulic fluids" in the tanks to regular AW 32.
It makes a noticeable difference to run the hydraulics on actual hydraulic fluid rather than motor oil.
I understand their use of a common fluid from a logistics standpoint, but the machinery just works better with the real thing. And I appreciate that they didn't go so far as using motor oil in the windshield washer, too.
 

BigBison

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18
Location
Yampa, CO
So far I've had to repair one on the SEE and three on the HMMH - the latter having very low miles and hours. No big deal, but still.
If the used one you've found has been operated, and fixed as needed, you'll be ahead in that department. But possibly also pay a premium for it.
Since I'm learning as I go about the Unimog portion of these machines, I'm not the one to give advice about the vehicle itself.
But I can say that I have not regretted buying either one. They're fun to work on, to drive, and to perform work with.
I paid a premium for a titled '89 HMMH, but got a bargain on my '87 SEE (followed by much aggravation due to bill-of-sale-only, plus some extra fees, still a bargain if I value my time at min wage ;) . Totals: $55K, 30 hours rebuilt, 800 miles. Hard lesson learned: tilt the cab and re-torque the head bolts on RR depot rebuilds, two reputable old salts grinned and chuckled at my sob story. -30*F, I tried the ether-shot on the SEE last winter, not sure where it stuck but I had to bail outta the cab when I felt the buzz kicking in, only then did I see all the steam coming out the stack. 110*F later, on its next (jump) startup, all was well -- but sure gave every indication I'd blown the head gasket, sounded the part too?

The SEE was less cherry, but also better taken care of (aside from incorrect head-bolt torque afaik) -- every zerk freshly greased. I'm not an expert on military affairs, but there's a TO (not TM) in with the rest here, which covers the greasing issue. My HMMH never hit a maintenance interval, so its zerks aren't even scratched! 85*F - -40* where I live, 3-5 pumps per zerk spring & fall will be my interval, even if they don't need it as per operating hours / miles. If you get a runner, grease 'er up good first thing! My HMMH has tell-tail stains on the flat-green paint job, where the grease all melted out. My SEE had visible fresh grease, upon arrival, but winter here means sand & salt, so pump that grease out in the spring and refill it in the fall.

First test of the suspension lockout on the HMMH cracked the reservoir, apparently a known problem which hadn't manifested pre-sale. Plus two leaky hydraulic cylinders, one major one minor, same deal -- cherry HMMH only ever been driven, without exercising various systems, stuff gonna dry rot. Those crane seals took five weeks to get, why I ordered plenty, I don't remember what I was told about the OEM on the crane, or the company which now owns that brand?

Air leaks on the HMMH, has 4x4 but no diff lock? I found some interesting info here on fixing this issue, which isn't covered in the "unit maint" manual, once again a case of stuff just sitting around not being used -- cherry FLU's, imo, really are too good to be true! Unless you take the time, upon acquisition, to do all the routine maintenance they require before ever starting the motor. Plus a few extra checks like head-bolt torque. :)

If only I had it to do over again, on both my "new" Mogs! Nutshell answer to OP: none of these issues presented pre-sale, nor would any have been deal-killers -- negotiating points, sure! I've had a couple of heartaches, despite not even having used either of my FLUs yet, because I didn't hit all the routine maintenance (and then some, like the air system, head-bolt torque check, drain the ether and use distilled water plus some WD-40 on that dash-mounted self-destruct-switch) before ever starting them up, after taking possession. My HMMH won't see much use in winter, but I will take her out of the barn twice a month and just warm up & work all the hydraulics, in this cold dry climate. There's nothing I could've done to keep her from spewing hydraulic fluid the first day I had her, this sort of equipment just doesn't take kindly to sitting around. Although, all hoses on both mogs are good.

My cold-weather mods so far: hydronic heaters & heated dipsticks, full fuel-line replacement with standard rubber fuel hose -- the 30yo plastic hoses are so brittle they aren't likely to last long around here, so Preventive Maintenance. I have lots of real-world work to do with mine (the SEE's getting a universal skid-steer adapter & belly PTO to run a snowblower) before they're relegated to garage-queen status, but even then, they need to come out & play. Day/night difference in my two mogs, one sat around, another was cared for 2x for every hour it was used -- even came with two spare oil filters, one spare hood gasket, full printed manuals, and a Unimog ballcap!
 

The FLU farm

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I have lots of real-world work to do with mine (the SEE's getting a universal skid-steer adapter & belly PTO to run a snowblower) before they're relegated to garage-queen status, but even then, they need to come out & play.
Hey, we can have a race! I'm starting on a quick attach conversion on Tuesday, when the adapter arrives. Not sure when the fully hydraulic snow blower will arrive, but to me the biggie will be to find out if the rear hydraulics will run it properly.
Needing another project like I need another hole in the head, last night I got the (stupid) idea to also put a quick attach on the backhoe. One bucket is coming off to get cut down to about 14" anyway, so why not make a QD mount that'd fit in its place?
Alright, I can think of several reasons myself, too, but the thought of being able to use the pallet forks on the backhoe is appealing somehow.

Also on the long list is to figure out the easy way to install hydraulic cylinders, at least in the rear, to use as suspension lock-outs.

The reservoir on the HMMH's front lockout was cracked on mine when it arrived, but that was a fairly easy fix...which is still working.

By the way, there's a PTO driven 8-foot snow blower for sale not that far from you...which is what got me going on this whole QA/snow blower thing in the first place. And I still think it might've been smarter to buy that one, convert it to QA, mount a hydraulic motor on the PTO shaft, then stick a Chevy 350 behind the cab to power a pump.
 

porkysplace

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I paid a premium for a titled '89 HMMH, but got a bargain on my '87 SEE (followed by much aggravation due to bill-of-sale-only, plus some extra fees, still a bargain if I value my time at min wage ;) . Totals: $55K, 30 hours rebuilt, 800 miles. Hard lesson learned: tilt the cab and re-torque the head bolts on RR depot rebuilds, two reputable old salts grinned and chuckled at my sob story. -30*F, I tried the ether-shot on the SEE last winter, not sure where it stuck but I had to bail outta the cab when I felt the buzz kicking in, only then did I see all the steam coming out the stack. 110*F later, on its next (jump) startup, all was well -- but sure gave every indication I'd blown the head gasket, sounded the part too?

The SEE was less cherry, but also better taken care of (aside from incorrect head-bolt torque afaik) -- every zerk freshly greased. I'm not an expert on military affairs, but there's a TO (not TM) in with the rest here, which covers the greasing issue. My HMMH never hit a maintenance interval, so its zerks aren't even scratched! 85*F - -40* where I live, 3-5 pumps per zerk spring & fall will be my interval, even if they don't need it as per operating hours / miles. If you get a runner, grease 'er up good first thing! My HMMH has tell-tail stains on the flat-green paint job, where the grease all melted out. My SEE had visible fresh grease, upon arrival, but winter here means sand & salt, so pump that grease out in the spring and refill it in the fall.

First test of the suspension lockout on the HMMH cracked the reservoir, apparently a known problem which hadn't manifested pre-sale. Plus two leaky hydraulic cylinders, one major one minor, same deal -- cherry HMMH only ever been driven, without exercising various systems, stuff gonna dry rot. Those crane seals took five weeks to get, why I ordered plenty, I don't remember what I was told about the OEM on the crane, or the company which now owns that brand?

Air leaks on the HMMH, has 4x4 but no diff lock? I found some interesting info here on fixing this issue, which isn't covered in the "unit maint" manual, once again a case of stuff just sitting around not being used -- cherry FLU's, imo, really are too good to be true! Unless you take the time, upon acquisition, to do all the routine maintenance they require before ever starting the motor. Plus a few extra checks like head-bolt torque. :)

If only I had it to do over again, on both my "new" Mogs! Nutshell answer to OP: none of these issues presented pre-sale, nor would any have been deal-killers -- negotiating points, sure! I've had a couple of heartaches, despite not even having used either of my FLUs yet, because I didn't hit all the routine maintenance (and then some, like the air system, head-bolt torque check, drain the ether and use distilled water plus some WD-40 on that dash-mounted self-destruct-switch) before ever starting them up, after taking possession. My HMMH won't see much use in winter, but I will take her out of the barn twice a month and just warm up & work all the hydraulics, in this cold dry climate. There's nothing I could've done to keep her from spewing hydraulic fluid the first day I had her, this sort of equipment just doesn't take kindly to sitting around. Although, all hoses on both mogs are good.

My cold-weather mods so far: hydronic heaters & heated dipsticks, full fuel-line replacement with standard rubber fuel hose -- the 30yo plastic hoses are so brittle they aren't likely to last long around here, so Preventive Maintenance. I have lots of real-world work to do with mine (the SEE's getting a universal skid-steer adapter & belly PTO to run a snowblower) before they're relegated to garage-queen status, but even then, they need to come out & play. Day/night difference in my two mogs, one sat around, another was cared for 2x for every hour it was used -- even came with two spare oil filters, one spare hood gasket, full printed manuals, and a Unimog ballcap!
If your using the the backhoe or loader your going to want to grease the pins and bushings daily.
 

BigBison

Member
317
1
18
Location
Yampa, CO
Not sure when the fully hydraulic snow blower will arrive, but to me the biggie will be to find out if the rear hydraulics will run it properly.
That is the question! Last winter was deep, here. Had I subbed out the SEE-blower, I would likely have recovered my investment in one winter. Intriguing idea about SBC on the back, given that. I'd use a Japanese motor, seeing as how I already put Russian hydronics on a German-American truck! ;) I've been researching custom snowblowers (made in USA), more like custom-configured. Rotate & deflect can connect to the front hydraulic pump.

What to do about twin augers with a burly fan, though? I figure the external-tool hoses can power the augers, and an under-tranny-mount hydraulic PTO can run the fan. I just went out and drove my HMMH up & down the county road in low range, keeping my RPM 1800-2000. I can see six of those gears being useful for snowblowing. I can also see my rig being underpowered on some of the steeper grades, operating at 8,000ft, so I was thinking six-foot width i.e. just wide enough to clear a path for the Mog.
 

The FLU farm

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Well, the SBC idea was simply because I have one. Could use a 6.2 diesel instead, I suppose, but those would be the most logical choices from what's in the pile.
The blower I bought, a 7-footer, is supposed to be able to run on the rear circuit. In theory. I studied that quite a bit before taking the plunge.

At 8,000, you're 500 feet above me, so cold must be on the menu. One thing I forgot to mention was how much better the hydraulics (in the rear, anyway) seems to work after dumping the 10W motor oil and using AW-32 instead. And not just in the winter.

That 8-footer I mentioned is a dual auger, by the way, if you haven't bought something already.
As for running the augers and fan from separate sources...I know that my operator skills wouldn't hack it.
 

BigBison

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18
Location
Yampa, CO
I know that my operator skills wouldn't hack it.
Kinda my thinking on having a 2nd motor on board. ;)

I thought (until a few minutes ago) the hose reel was powered by the rear PTO. Sometimes I forget to keep things simple... a nice, new PTO hydraulic under the tranny can't be a bad thing to have, and I'm sure it'll run whatever snowblower I decide on. 8-foot is just wider than I want to go, sticking out on both sides, collecting debris trying to maneuver on narrow, twisty mountain driveways and private roads you couldn't get a permit to build like that nowadays. But, I haven't bought anything yet, the trees still have leaves but not much green left, so it's getting down to the wire.
 

porkysplace

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Kinda my thinking on having a 2nd motor on board. ;)

I thought (until a few minutes ago) the hose reel was powered by the rear PTO. Sometimes I forget to keep things simple... a nice, new PTO hydraulic under the tranny can't be a bad thing to have, and I'm sure it'll run whatever snowblower I decide on. 8-foot is just wider than I want to go, sticking out on both sides, collecting debris trying to maneuver on narrow, twisty mountain driveways and private roads you couldn't get a permit to build like that nowadays. But, I haven't bought anything yet, the trees still have leaves but not much green left, so it's getting down to the wire.
For the hydraulic pump you just need to match pto rpms / gpm to the blower you plan on using .
 

BigBison

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Location
Yampa, CO
From someone else's post in another thread, taken from the right page in the right manual:

Front (SEE)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Engine
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gpm @ 2450 psi (30 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Front loader and machine tools
Rear (SEE)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PTO
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 gpm @ 2450 psi (98 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Backhoe



Front (HMMH)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Engine
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gpm @ 2450 psi (30 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Forklift and impact wrench
Rear (HMMH)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PTO
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . .. . 14 gpm @ 2450 psi (54 Lpm at 167 bar) @ 1100 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Crane
 

BigBison

Member
317
1
18
Location
Yampa, CO
From another thread:

TM 5-2420-224-20-1 UNIT MAINTENANCE MANUAL
Page 1-7

"Hydraulic System
Front (SEE)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Engine
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gpm @ 2450 psi (30 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Front loader and machine tools
Rear (SEE)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .PTO
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 gpm @ 2450 psi (98 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Backhoe



Front (HMMH)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Engine
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gpm @ 2450 psi (30 Lpm @ 167bar) @ 2000 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Forklift and impact wrench
Rear (HMMH)
Drive . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PTO
Capacity . . . . . . . . . . .. . 14 gpm @ 2450 psi (54 Lpm at 167 bar) @ 1100 engine rpm
Use . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Crane"
 

peakbagger

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northern nh
FYI, I have extracted and indexed every references to the SEE and HMMH from the PS Magazines. They are in the TM upload folder for now. These are the monthly comic book style PM magazines issued by the military. Not much HMMH specific but lots of SEE stuff including several recommended upgrades to improve the equipment and prevent damage. I would recommend new SEE owners to look at all of them to see what applies
 
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