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Two new toys unimog 404

joeblack5

Active member
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Location
State College PA
Sorry folks, I was caught up in reroofing our house. 24 gauge metal... Thanks for the feedback.

So I am extra aware of the first gear and it does not happen anymore.
Love hauling and riding with the mog.

Amazing how many people give you a thumbs up.

From day one this motor has aloud clattering..ticking..like valves.. the compression was good so I kind of rules the valves out.. a little nervous that the timing chain guides are " gone"..

I have not taken the valve cover off to make any assessment.

How critical are the timing chain guides?
 

Studentofthewrench

New member
5
4
3
Location
Andover MN
Hi Guys,
I don't know if you are still using this thread because it is pretty old but I just purchased a 1967 Unimog 404 with the gas engine. Joeblack I saw that you bought 2 of these and unstuck the engines right away.
I have a stuck engine that was sitting for some time in CA. (I'm in MN) I took out the radiator and put a socket and breaker bar on the crank bolt after applying ample transmission fluid to each cylinder through the spark plug holes. it has been about 2 weeks and wont budge yet.
You did a trick jacking it up and turning a wheel with it in gear?
I may sound foolish but I don't even know how to tell what gear it is in to try your method.

Any help you Guys can provide would be greatly appreciated as I begin my journey.

Thanks!
 

joeblack5

Active member
256
244
43
Location
State College PA
Hi Guys,
I don't know if you are still using this thread because it is pretty old but I just purchased a 1967 Unimog 404 with the gas engine. Joeblack I saw that you bought 2 of these and unstuck the engines right away.
I have a stuck engine that was sitting for some time in CA. (I'm in MN) I took out the radiator and put a socket and breaker bar on the crank bolt after applying ample transmission fluid to each cylinder through the spark plug holes. it has been about 2 weeks and wont budge yet.
You did a trick jacking it up and turning a wheel with it in gear?
I may sound foolish but I don't even know how to tell what gear it is in to try your method.

Any help you Guys can provide would be greatly appreciated as I begin my journey.

Thanks!
Hearing your problems it seems that I was just lucky...and lazy...did not want to remove the radiator.. your method should work better. How big is your breaker bar. Mine was 6 ft and I was jumping on it.
 

Studentofthewrench

New member
5
4
3
Location
Andover MN
My Breaker bar is only about 2 feet long.
I was told if I put too much force on it I can mess up the rings.
One thing I noticed is that when I crank on it with the bar I am tightening the nut and I don't want to brake it off or something
 

2manytrucks

New member
12
12
3
Location
Acton, CA
My Breaker bar is only about 2 feet long.
I was told if I put too much force on it I can mess up the rings.
One thing I noticed is that when I crank on it with the bar I am tightening the nut and I don't want to brake it off or something
Student, You're experiencing one of the common problems with the 404 if it sits for a long time. Between the aluminum head, iron block, brass radiator and aluminum pistons, if these trucks sit in damp for very long electrolysis can run rampant inside the cylinders that have open valves. Joe's trucks were in the desert and still got stuck, albeit mildly. If your truck came from an area with a lot of moisture, such as the mountains or coastline, your truck could have a bigger problem.

For example, I've had several come in from europe with seized engines and when I've pulled the head off, the corrosion often resembled white hair (literally) and sometimes completely filled the cylinder. There's no way to compress that, you'll just bend a rod or shatter the piston. I've sometimes cleaned out all the corrosion only to be amazed by the severe pitting of the aluminum which often made the head and pistons useless.

When you add in Mercedes' love of extremely tight piston to cylinder tolerances, I've only been able to free up seized 404 engines (again, from Northern European climates) without disassembly about a third of the time. Considering the cost of a head gasket compared to a whole engine, I don't even bother to try anymore-I just pull the head which is relatively easy and then you can clean out the cylinders, head ports, check the valves and also put heat to the pistons if necessary.

Even then, one time I did all of the above and got the engine running really well, only to have it shatter a piston later on while I was under the hood. The crank counter weights then launched a piece of piston through that cast aluminum oil pan like a bullet. It missed my thick skull by a couple inches and put a dent in the engine compartment. Ruined the block and it would have killed me if it hit me. So above all, be patient and take your time. Your breaker bar may be able to turn it with some luck and a little more soaking, but it may not.

If you do have to pull the head, keep in mind the 404 uses a different head gasket than the automotive versions of the M180.
 

2manytrucks

New member
12
12
3
Location
Acton, CA
Sorry folks, I was caught up in reroofing our house. 24 gauge metal... Thanks for the feedback.

So I am extra aware of the first gear and it does not happen anymore.
Love hauling and riding with the mog.

Amazing how many people give you a thumbs up.

From day one this motor has aloud clattering..ticking..like valves.. the compression was good so I kind of rules the valves out.. a little nervous that the timing chain guides are " gone"..

I have not taken the valve cover off to make any assessment.

How critical are the timing chain guides?
The timing chain is tensioned by a hydraulic tensioner inside the timing case that works off oil pressure. Could be sticky or worn. That would be my first guess.
 

Ferretboy

Well-known member
384
471
63
Location
Ripley,ohio
Hello student.....it would be great if you had one of those cameras to look into a sparkplug hole....to see what you may be dealing with....also after adding oil to the cylinders remember to leave the sparkplugs out or you will get hydro lock....you cannot compress a cylinder full of oil......good luck
 

joeblack5

Active member
256
244
43
Location
State College PA
Thank you more experienced folks for helping out... I have been tied up lately with the after math of a car accident.

Black ice... 40 mph.. going up a slight incline..rear end broke out..unable to bring it back...slid over the road ..hit bank on opposite side..drove up.. flipped sound 180 degree and landed on side in opposite lane ..

Dog rear leg stuck under bus. Thru broken glass of side door.. Smell diesel. Fear of fire.. pounded 2*4 in between pavement and door to relieve pressure and pull Rosie out.. what a chaos.. Rosie's right rear leg got pulled out of hip.. very..very..very helpful voluntary fire brigade .. cops..not so much...got a ticket for driving inappropriate speed at a 55 mph road..

Volunteer brought dog and me to vet. Rested paw..ehmer sling.. now is a waiting came.

Me, no damage, besides ego..

Johan

Johan
 

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Ferretboy

Well-known member
384
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63
Location
Ripley,ohio
Hi Johan.....hope your puppy is o.k. and you too... hate to even think about a bad wreck....everyone be careful....this time of year things can get slicker than greased ......well slick....
 

Guyfang

Moderator
Staff member
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Location
Burgkunstadt, Germany
You and your Rosie get better now! No laying around. No feeling sorry about what happened. Crap happens. So long as you can walk away, things will get better. Its you and Rosie that count.
 

joeblack5

Active member
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43
Location
State College PA
Thanks Guy and David,

it is amazing that after three weeks i still wake up at 4 to 5 AM. Not even sure from what, guess my mind is still processing how much luck we had. Not specifically religious but I find myself thanking a lot more.

Rosie is doing well, the ehmer sling is off and she starts using her bad leg again. We are careful and hope it stays in place.

I started my attempts to pull back the body.
 

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joeblack5

Active member
256
244
43
Location
State College PA
He Student of the wrench, best to you..let the oil do the work..

Thanks to many for your inputs . I probably need to crank my 404 now that they are here in wet Pennsylvania.

Still not sure where the ticking noise originates from.. nor do I have an idea how a loose timing chain sounds like.

Still working mainly on pulling my bus straight.. the best thing is using the forklift and tying the frame to the back of the forklift and then transferring the mast tilt to the bus with a 4*4.

Better but still 1/4" to go. The front doors are a lost case so I substituted with an used RV door . Did have to be shortened. Did some fun straightening of the aluminum rear passenger corner with some TIG welding of the cracks in the aluminum..snowing now so work has stopped.
 

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joeblack5

Active member
256
244
43
Location
State College PA
Hope all of you had a good Christmas.

It is cold and windy in pennsylvania. 30 F and real feel 25F.. the Mog is sitting outside..previous mentioned that the engine has a loud light tick.. not sure if it was valves or chain but ..I wanted to find out before something catastrophic would happen.

It started right up, needles to say I was impressed. Ran it for 15 minutes so it would be more pleasant to work on..

In that process I found that the heater valves were closed and opened them up...heat works.

Removed the valve cover.. less impressed by that design.. but ok..they did not have 3d design software in the day..

At least the visible part of the plastic chain cover was in good shape.

Some bad putting on some of the camshaft lobes.. I guess condensation..bad oil..short runs?
Started feeling around with the shims and on cylinder 1 ..indeed worn rocker..

I think the previous po adjusted with shim on the high spots of the rocker. Actual play was 0.013 instead of 0.008.


Pulled the rocker out with an allen wrench in the ball pivot side hole according to some mercedes mechanics trick.

Now I know what to look for. The others will go easier...tomorrow ..when it is warmer.

So the putting on the camshaft begs the question could the cylinder also be pitted like that?
 

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