Spicer 3053a in an M-37

TxRider · Jan 9, 2009

I find myself in need to pick some grizzled brains...

I'm putting a spicer 3053 behind a 4bt cummins in my M-37 so I'm going to have to attach a spicer 3053a to the NP200 transfer case..

The current intermediate shaft is about the right length, the distance is only about an inch less with the spicer..

Is there a input flange for an NP200 that would let me use an M35 shaft? Is an M-35 shaft too long for an M-37?

Or maybe a output flange for the back of the spicer that my M-37 shaft could work with?

U-joint that will connect the 2?

I figure I'll ask and see if anyone has a simple method or has previously done this before I drag things out to a custom drivleine shop...

Search wasn't much help...

gimpyrobb · Jan 9, 2009

I think Tanner is working something similar. I'm putting a BBC in my m725, I found this flange to adapt the trans output to the rest of the Ujoints. 1310 I think. 2-2-579 flange

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/gimpyrobb/715/kaiser007.jpg

TxRider · Jan 9, 2009

So if I have this right a duece flange off the spicer would take a 1410 and the M-37 shaft is a 1310.

Wonder if a conversion u-joint is possible for that combo?

Or a 1410 flange for an NP200, I could use a duece shaft and shorten it?

How long is a duece's intermediate shaft?

TxRider · Jan 10, 2009

Did a little searching around and cross referencing...

If I have this right the duece uses a 1410 retainer plate style ujoint on the front of the intermediate shaft, and the M-37 uses a 1310 inside snap ring ujoint.

A quick hunt shows a neapco #2-3190 is a 1410 outside snap ring to 1310 inside snap ring conversion u-joint.

Or also a spicer #2-2-579/neapco #N2-2-579 would bolt to the spicers output flange and is a 1310 outside snap ring ujoint flange. Might need a spacer though to clear the spicer's output shaft nut.

Or what's looking like the most sensible thing so far is a Spicer #3-2-429/Neapco #N3-2-429 flange that should bolt to the spicer's output flange and takes an outside snap ring 1410 ujoint, and use the Spicer#5-357X/Neapco #2-3190 conversion ujoint from to go from the 1410 outside snap ring to the 1310 inside snap ring of the M-37 intermediate shaft u-joint to mate to my intermediate shaft.

Anyone see anything wrong there?

As far as I can tell this is also a good cross reference for the M-37 intermediate shaft u-joint #.

Rockford K1301
Detroit 5380 U-Joint
Spicer 5-1301X
Neapco 3-0056
Precicion 304
Napa PUJ304

Tanner · Jan 10, 2009

TxRider said:
Did a little searching around and cross referencing...

If I have this right the duece uses a 1410 retainer plate style ujoint on the front of the intermediate shaft, and the M-37 uses a 1310 inside snap ring ujoint.

A quick hunt shows a neapco #2-3190 is a 1410 outside snap ring to 1310 inside snap ring conversion u-joint.

Or also a spicer #2-2-579/neapco #N2-2-579 would bolt to the spicers output flange and is a 1310 outside snap ring ujoint flange. Might need a spacer though to clear the spicer's output shaft nut.

Or what's looking like the most sensible thing so far is a Spicer #3-2-429/Neapco #N3-2-429 flange that should bolt to the spicer's output flange and takes an outside snap ring 1410 ujoint, and use the Spicer#5-357X/Neapco #2-3190 conversion ujoint from to go from the 1410 outside snap ring to the 1310 inside snap ring of the M-37 intermediate shaft u-joint to mate to my intermediate shaft.

Anyone see anything wrong there?

As far as I can tell this is also a good cross reference for the M-37 intermediate shaft u-joint #.

Rockford K1301
Detroit 5380 U-Joint
Spicer 5-1301X
Neapco 3-0056
Precicion 304
Napa PUJ304

TxRider -

Seems like you might be correct re the need for a spacer on the back of the 3053A to clear the nut. I ran across someone else on the Web doing a 3053A swap & noted that they used a spacer maybe 1/2" thick(?) to makeup trhe difference in length. I'm not quite to the engine drop in stage yet on my M37, as I am still working to get the old trans mounts removed from the frame.

'Tanner'

gimpyrobb · Jan 10, 2009

Yes, you will need the spacer to make the 1310 flange work.

Barrman · Jan 10, 2009

Here is the spacer I built to go from the 3053A to a 1310 M715 shaft which is the same thing you have.

Tanner · Jan 10, 2009

Hey Barrman!

I KNEW I saw this somewhere!

Something that I considered earlier today in thinking about this was the possibility of making a thicker spacer like you did, but making it with 8 through-holes... One set of 4 holes matches the Spicer 3053A flange pattern & the other set of 4 holes matches the stock M37 flange pattern...

"Tanner"

TxRider · Jan 11, 2009

Tanner said:
Hey Barrman!

I KNEW I saw this somewhere!

Something that I considered earlier today in thinking about this was the possibility of making a thicker spacer like you did, but making it with 8 through-holes... One set of 4 holes matches the Spicer 3053A flange pattern & the other set of 4 holes matches the stock M37 flange pattern...

"Tanner"

That's my backup plan, a 3/4" steel disk adapter that both flanges bolt to. I've seen it done before.

Ok since we know that the 1310 flange needs a spacer I think I'll try the 1410 flange and the 1410>1310 conversion ujoint first though. It might have a chance at clearing the nut on the tail shaft where the 1310 won't..

If nothing else we'll all know if it works or not.

Is there a preferred or good place to buy neapco or spicer parts on the web?

Barrman · Jan 11, 2009

Chris, Gimpyrob has the best place to buy it price wise that I have found. See his thread about his M725 build on the Zone or my thread about it on the Zone as well. He list out the contact info.

The little adaptor I built really takes up room under the truck. It clears the floor ok, but made us take another inch or so out of the stock cross member. I don't remember how the M37 held the back of the transmission up, but you might run into trouble if you are trying to adapt the stock cross member. If you have cut everything off, then it won't be a problem. Another option is to us the bellhousing mounts all of the Chevy to 3052A bellhousings have. I didn't because they block the pto shaft for a winch. Those mounts by the way make a lot of things real simple.

gringeltaube · Jan 11, 2009

TxRider said:
................
Or what's looking like the most sensible thing so far is a Spicer #3-2-429/Neapco #N3-2-429 flange that should bolt to the spicer's output flange and takes an outside snap ring 1410 ujoint, and use the Spicer#5-357X/Neapco #2-3190 conversion ujoint from to go from the 1410 outside snap ring to the 1310 inside snap ring of the M-37 intermediate shaft u-joint to mate to my intermediate shaft.

Anyone see anything wrong there?
................

I guess you know that the #5-357 (or equivalent) of the M-37 shaft pefectly fits into the std. flange of the M35 front and rear inter-axle driveshafts...???
All I had to do to mate the Spicer to the NP200 was replacing the stock Detroit 053501 flange with the larger one from the M35, which adds 11/16" to its original lenght. The distance between flanges shown in the pics is approx. 12 3/4".

Hope this helps.

G.

TxRider · Jan 11, 2009

Barrman said:
Chris, Gimpyrob has the best place to buy it price wise that I have found. See his thread about his M725 build on the Zone or my thread about it on the Zone as well. He list out the contact info.

The little adaptor I built really takes up room under the truck. It clears the floor ok, but made us take another inch or so out of the stock cross member. I don't remember how the M37 held the back of the transmission up, but you might run into trouble if you are trying to adapt the stock cross member. If you have cut everything off, then it won't be a problem. Another option is to us the bellhousing mounts all of the Chevy to 3052A bellhousings have. I didn't because they block the pto shaft for a winch. Those mounts by the way make a lot of things real simple.

There is no transmission mount on the M-37. The engine mounts up front, and the rear engine mounts are wings off the side of the bell housing. The transmission is supported by just the bell housing.

I'll be doing the same with the 4bt, and making side mounts off the SAE flywheel housing.

My only real issue is intermediate shaft length, and the thicker a spacer or adapter, the shorter my shaft will need to be, it's about 1" shorter distance from the spicer to the NP200 than it is from the stock trans as best I can measure it. I'll probably lose a little more with the 1410 flange.

The splined half of the shaft has maybe an inch I can cut off easily to shorten the shaft a bit if I need to. It might be tight.

TxRider · Jan 11, 2009

gringeltaube said:
I guess you know that the #5-357 (or equivalent) of the M-37 shaft pefectly fits into the std. flange of the M35 front and rear inter-axle driveshafts...???
All I had to do to mate the Spicer to the NP200 was replacing the stock Detroit 053501 flange with the larger one from the M35, which adds 11/16" to its original lenght. The distance between flanges shown in the pics is approx. 12 3/4".

Hope this helps.

G.

I had thought about it, but I never even checked it out because I assumed the M35 shaft would be too big...

Your saying the transmission end is just the stock M35 inter axle shaft, and it slips right into the stock M37 slip yoke?

Sweet deal if it does, I'll just call Boyce or someone and snag a shaft...

Major thanks.

Ahh I see what you mean, you used the flange from the M-35, and the stock M-37 ujoint fit in it?

gringeltaube · Jan 11, 2009

TxRider said:
........................
Ahh I see what you mean, you used the flange from the M-35, and the stock M-37 ujoint fit in it?

That's exactly what I tried to explain in words..... but the pics did better...... :-D

!

TxRider · Jan 11, 2009

Ok, that makes sense.

From what I can see that's an outside snap ring flange, takes a 1410 u-joint stock on the M35. And if it'll bolt right up on the spicer 3053a and clear the tail shaft nut I'm golden.

So that and then using the 1310 to 1410 conversion u-joint I found is a sure thing. Should be a perfect fit.

Sound about right?

My shaft will be 11/16" longer, plus the approx 1" from the spicer being longer than the stock trans for a total of about for 1-11/16" I can probably deal with that.

I wonder if the M35 flange is the same part as the one I was looking at on the spicer site? Probably not worth the effort of cross referencing. I had priced it online about $45

gringeltaube · Jan 12, 2009

FYI: according to the Spicer catalog J300P-2 the yoke flanges used for the M-35 series on front and rearmost drive shafts are 3-2-1789, very close to the 3-2-429 you found.

G.

TxRider · Jan 12, 2009

That's neat gringel,

I'll have to have another look through some catalogs I think.

BTW Barrman,

My folks live close to you down in Smithville off park road 1 between Bastrop and Beuscher state parks, if you see an OD M-37 rattling around down there with a 4bt later this spring, that'll be me... I'll probably relocate down there at some point, nice country.

Barrman · Jan 13, 2009

I will be there on PR 1 Saturday with a Boy Scout Orienteering meet. 26 miles from my house.

TxRider · Jan 13, 2009

Cool, it's a small world.

I read over at M715 you lived down there and worked for TYC, my sister and brother in law live there between the parks as well, out off of old antioch road. Years ago he worked for some sort of camp I believe was under TYC there off park road 1 somewhere with some very disturbed kids from what I gather. Walking distance from his house anyway.

He's been with Texas parks and wildlife for years now though, I don't know if that camp is still even there and operating these days.

m139h2otruck · Jan 22, 2009

A little off topic, but there was a guy at the Weare show this last summer with an M37 w/ a 3-53 from a Gamma-Goat and he was using the 5 speed out of the M35. Drives the thing year round. I have no idea how he hooked everything up, but with the 3-53 the engine compartment is real full.

Spicer 3053a in an M-37

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