CDL Required in Florida?

[renovate7]

I just did a search and read all the threads. It looks like a don't need a CDL, in Florida, because it is a straight truck for private use? If I can get the title to say the weight is 23K does that also reinforce that I don't need a CDL? What about the air brakes? I can't find a definitive answer on that. I've had several Deuces, with one of the MacDill trucks on it's way in now, but never a 5 ton. Looked at several at the MVPA convention in Huntsville and now want one...Any fellow Floridians shed any light on the Licensing requirements? Also, will Gulfway insure them?

 

[Floridianson]

Air brakes class b cdl

 

[Ruppster]

I just did a search and read all the threads. It looks like a don't need a CDL, in Florida, because it is a straight truck for private use? If I can get the title to say the weight is 23K does that also reinforce that I don't need a CDL? What about the air brakes? I can't find a definitive answer on that. I've had several Deuces, with one of the McDill trucks on it's way in now, but never a 5 ton. Looked at several at the MVPA convention in Huntsville and now want one...Any fellow Floridians shed any light on the Licensing requirements? Also, will Gulfway insure them?

Florida is pretty strange when it comes to CDL requirements. If it's a cargo truck that's for personal use you can drive any size truck regardless of GVWR/GCWR with a regular license. But if it has a commercial type fifth wheel hitch on the back and isn't designed to carry cargo on the truck itself (like a semi truck tractor) then you need at least a Class B CDL if the GVWR is 26,001 pounds or more. Florida does not have a non-commercial class A or B license like some states.


Edit: Yes, Gulfway will insure them. I used them for the antique semi truck that's shown in my current avatar.

Air brakes class b cdl

I've talked to a couple of FL CLEO's about this and they could not find anything in the regs that say a CDL is required if you have air brakes. I've also read through the state statutes and could not find anything to back up that claim. Do you know what statute that requirement is in? If that is true that could be the reason the state mandates a CDL for tractor trailer trucks as they would automatically have air brakes while a cargo truck could have either.

 

[RAYZER]

Deuce weights around 13k lbs.

 

[Ruppster]

Deuce weights around 13k lbs.

I think he's asking about 5 tons, not deuces. But that's just a guess based on his post being in the 5 ton forum.


Anyhow, back to the original post. You asked about having the title indicate 23,000 pounds. In Florida that means nothing when it comes to CDL issues as they go by the actual data plate on the truck. Where the weight comes in as far as DMV is concerned is when you get the tags (license plates) for it. If you are going with the permanent antique tags then the weight becomes a moot point. If you go with regular truck plates so you can drive it as you want (i.e. no restrictions like parade or show use) then they will ask for something called registered weight. This can be lower or higher then the vehicles GVWR or GCWR. You can have a truck with a GVWR of 48,000 pounds but only have it tagged for 35,000 pounds. The catch is you never want to get caught at a scale weighing more then what you are registered for as they will give you a very expensive ticket for your effort.

 

[Goose2448]

The way I read it is even with air over hydraulic brakes you still need a CDL without air brake restriction. Just get it to be sure, and then you have it anyway. Its really easy to get and pretty cheap if you have an approved truck to test in. I heard Label tax collector has a semi you can rent for about $50 for the test too.

 

[pctrans]

Renovate7, are you talking deuce or 5 ton??

 

[renovate7]

I'm talking about 5 tons. I read the Florida DOT regs again today and see the straight truck/personal use exemption but nothing about air brakes other than an endorsement. I'm afraid if I called them and talked to 3 different people I'd get 3 different answers.

 

[Ruppster]

Here's a couple of things I've learned to do when talking to CLEO's (Commercial Law Enforcement Officers).

1.) Buy a spiral notebook and log all calls you make. Be sure to write down the phone number, date and time, and the name of the person you talked to along with the answer they gave you. And keep this log with you when you drive the truck.

2.) When you get an answer ask them for the reg or statute number that they are basing that answer from. Then print a copy of that section and add it to your log book. I have had people tell me I couldn't do something and when I asked them for the reg they had to look it up and in the process most of them found out they were wrong. And the log book will come in handy should you be stopped by a CLEO at the scales and they try to treat you as commercial. I've driven personal use semi trucks cross country several times (PCS moves) and I've lost track of how many times my log book saved my backside.

The key thing is to ask for the regulation or statute that covers the subject you are asking about.

 

[Tow4]

I'm talking about 5 tons. I read the Florida DOT regs again today and see the straight truck/personal use exemption but nothing about air brakes other than an endorsement. I'm afraid if I called them and talked to 3 different people I'd get 3 different answers.

You will get 3 different answers. You should take Ruppster's advice, copy the statute that states the personal use exemption, make notes of people you talk to and keep them with you.

If you can get it tagged as a RV, all the licensing problems go away. Several years ago I read on an RV forum about people with Semi-truck tractors pulling a "RV" and getting away with a regular DL. However, if you unhook the trailer, it's no longer a RV.

The rules we all hear about weights etc. basically mean above a certain weight or number of axles a state (this varies by state) determines a vehicle is commercial and requires a CDL. That your vehicle is not commercial is what you have to argue on the side of the road. This is the same argument you have to make if your city determines no parking of commercial vehicles above a certain weight or number of axles. The weight or number of axles determines what it is.

Attached is the page from the 2009 FL CDL manual that deals with CDL requirements. The requirements vary state to state. This is for FLORIDA. You can look up the latest version.

The key here is does the single vehicle GVWR exceed 26,000 lbs. For a 5 ton the answer is yes. GVWR is what the manufacturer says, not what you tag it for. The air brake test is part of the pre-trip inspection for the CDL. Florida doesn't have a non-commercial CDL. I don't think you can get the air brake endorsement without a CDL in Florida.

 

[Ruppster]

If you can get it tagged as a RV, all the licensing problems go away. Several years ago I read on an RV forum about people with Semi-truck tractors pulling a "RV" and getting away with a regular DL. However, if you unhook the trailer, it's no longer a RV.

Yes, as long your state doesn't require a special RV license for large RV's you can drive any size truck you want if it's pulling an RV trailer as it is classified as an RV combo and therefore qualifies for the RV exemption. Florida will allow a truck's registration to be reclassed as an RV but they have a list of requirements in order to do it. I was going to do that with my 4300 Transtar semi truck but since I wanted to leave a fifth wheel on the back Florida would not allow it as the state does not recognize Toter-Homes as RV's. But if you have a shop van like an M109 it can be converted to an RV with very little work.

Attached is the page from the 2009 FL CDL manual that deals with CDL requirements. The requirements vary state to state. This is for FLORIDA. You can look up the latest version.

Here's where the wording can get you. The fine print with the page you posted is that it's talking about Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV's). To add insult to injury some states have two different definitions of what a CMV is, one in the statute that covers registration and one in the statute that covers driver's licensing requirements. There may even be a third definition in the manual that covers state DOT requirements (med cards, vehicle DOT inspections, log book). This is why I'm a firm believer in reading the regs/statutes yourself and not taking the word of CLEO's.

So if you find a reg/statute that says a CDL is needed for CMV's then flip over to the section of that reg/statute that covers definitions and see what it defines as a CMV. With luck you may find a comment about a CMV being a vehicle "used in commerce". If not then it could be based solely on GVWR and in that case you're out of luck.

I don't think you can get the air brake endorsement without a CDL in Florida.

When I've had CLEO's tell me I didn't need a CDL due to weight (GVWR) as long as the truck was for personal use but at the same time tell me I would need a CDL regardless of use if the truck had air brakes I would respond with the following question:

If I only need a CDL if the vehicle is used in commerce then how can air brakes make a personal use truck all of a sudden become a CMV?

Each time I asked that question they could not give me a solid answer nor were they able to provide a reg or statute number to back up the air brake claim. Even CFR 49 gives an exemption for personal use and I have not been able to find any part of it say air brakes require a CDL. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I just haven't found any CLEO's that have been able to site the reg that backs them up.

 

[renovate7]

Thanks for all the info. Tow 4 that page doesn't cite the possibility of an exemption, which does exist. I'm going to copy the page that talks about the exemption and use that as a justification for no CDL. As to the air brakes, I haven't seen anything, here in Florida, that says I need a CDL because of them...I'm a firm believer in carrying copies of regs with me. I keep a copy of the the one that says you don't need to display a license plate on restored Military Vehicles. Haven't needed to use it yet here in Polk County but have it just in case.

 

[Tow4]

renovate7,
I keep a copy of the statute that says I don't have to display a tag in the glove compartment with the tag and registration also. Anything that supports your position if there are grey areas should be carried with you.

Just make sure you don't read between the lines too much. Statutes almost always have sub-parts so make sure one of the sub-parts doesn't nullify your point. There will be a definitions section that covers the statute number so read that too. Definitions vary from one section of statutes to the next, make sure you read the correct one.

Good Luck.

 

[renovate7]

I talked to someone at NAPA today. He was 20 yrs. army and worked on Deuces and 5 Tons, a wealth of knowledge. He said the big diesel pusher motorhomes today are over 26k in weight, have all air brakes, and don't require CDL's. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Goose2448]

That's correct. The old folks got mad that they could not pass their CDL that they needed to drive their huge RVs and threw a fit. They dropped it for motorhomes. Its a load of crap.

 

[ARYankee]

One suggestion I have would be to stay current on Local, State, AND Federal regs. If any of them change, even a definition, it can change the others. I'm digging into some changes to our laws here in Arkansas and I was looking over this thread to see what Florida does. I want to say Thank You to those that contributed. Also, can someone direct me to where I can get an online, up to date, copy of the regs and statutes?