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M1007 - CUCV Suburban Clone Build Thread
- Thread starter Warthog
- Start date
Barrman
Well-known member
Yes Joe, that is the manual for the digital version.
Amazingly enough, the post office actually delivered things early yesterday. The analog 480 and the 160 luminosity probe both showed up yesterday afternoon. The power leads were without insulation. Once I replaced that. I put in the probe and fired up the engine. It was neat seeing the orange flame. Nice and steady. I got the magnetic pickup in the holder and tried it. No rpm and a pegged timing dial. The online MT480 manual I found says that happens if the magnetic pickup is bad, dirty balancer or the timing groove on the balancer is not wide enough. It was dark, the mosquitoes were out and I was hungry. I will get back to it later.
That is an awesome filter Chris. I think I have 4 or 5 of your set ups. I need to find the heater element that fits these so I can take the Cowdog skiing some winter.
I can call and ask about a DS4. However, I have what is supposed to be a fresh DS4. Call, pm or email.
Amazingly enough, the post office actually delivered things early yesterday. The analog 480 and the 160 luminosity probe both showed up yesterday afternoon. The power leads were without insulation. Once I replaced that. I put in the probe and fired up the engine. It was neat seeing the orange flame. Nice and steady. I got the magnetic pickup in the holder and tried it. No rpm and a pegged timing dial. The online MT480 manual I found says that happens if the magnetic pickup is bad, dirty balancer or the timing groove on the balancer is not wide enough. It was dark, the mosquitoes were out and I was hungry. I will get back to it later.
That is an awesome filter Chris. I think I have 4 or 5 of your set ups. I need to find the heater element that fits these so I can take the Cowdog skiing some winter.
I can call and ask about a DS4. However, I have what is supposed to be a fresh DS4. Call, pm or email.
Barrman
Well-known member
I have been driving and driving it.
Last Sunday I was meeting Colton for bonfire cut in the middle of nowhere. He had sent me an address that was wrong. I found myself 15 miles from where I needed to be and about 3 minutes to get there. Nothing but dirt roads with 90° turns. I discovered some interesting things about the Cowdog.
70 mph on a dirt road is silky smooth.
I could not make the rear end kick out in a power slide. Not knowing the roads, I couldn’t enter the turns on the power. That meant I had to wait until I could see straight road before I could punch it. Leaving the shifter in OD meant a down shift would happen if I got on it hard. But, the boost could never build enough to cause wheel spin in the turns. Just on the straights. Lots and lots of wheel spin if I stayed in the power. Turbo lag.
I called and talked to Heath the other day. I still get around 210° coolant temp running down the highway above 70 mph. They asked what rpm I was at. 2,000 rpm at 75 mph is what I have. They said that was too low for proper cooling with the Delco water pump. They suggested 2,500 rpm. I have no problem with that when towing. But not just cruising empty. I might have to go to the expensive super cool package that I should have just saved up for and bought a year ago.
Without overdrive. My current set up would probably be just fine. Oh well, live and learn.
Last Sunday I was meeting Colton for bonfire cut in the middle of nowhere. He had sent me an address that was wrong. I found myself 15 miles from where I needed to be and about 3 minutes to get there. Nothing but dirt roads with 90° turns. I discovered some interesting things about the Cowdog.
70 mph on a dirt road is silky smooth.
I could not make the rear end kick out in a power slide. Not knowing the roads, I couldn’t enter the turns on the power. That meant I had to wait until I could see straight road before I could punch it. Leaving the shifter in OD meant a down shift would happen if I got on it hard. But, the boost could never build enough to cause wheel spin in the turns. Just on the straights. Lots and lots of wheel spin if I stayed in the power. Turbo lag.
I called and talked to Heath the other day. I still get around 210° coolant temp running down the highway above 70 mph. They asked what rpm I was at. 2,000 rpm at 75 mph is what I have. They said that was too low for proper cooling with the Delco water pump. They suggested 2,500 rpm. I have no problem with that when towing. But not just cruising empty. I might have to go to the expensive super cool package that I should have just saved up for and bought a year ago.
Without overdrive. My current set up would probably be just fine. Oh well, live and learn.
Could you speed up the pump with a smaller pulley?
Hey Tim, got any info on the Gulfport truck? Curious about what you have there.
Barrman
Well-known member
1988 k3500. 6.2/TH400/NP241. 14 bolt semi float. Pm me your email and I can tell you more.
Yes, speeding up the water pump probably would help. I’m kind of stuck in “in between land” on this issue. Square body truck designed for gasoline engines, Diesel engine designed for 55 mph speed limits without over drive, radiator also designed for 55 and no OD. Add in the Banks turbo kit, my 35” tires and 3.73 gears. I expected issues.
However, my design goals put me here. Highway cruising at posted speed limits up to 85 mph while getting as close to 20 mpg as I can. For sure 20 plus mpg at 65-70 mph driving. All with ice cold air conditioning and other comforts. Then, be able to pull 10,000 pounds up to 65 mph and get 10 mpg doing it.
I haven’t finished wiring in a mode switch button for the Compushift TCM. When I do, that will be my “Tow/Haul” button in effect since the 4L80E didn’t have that option. I have spent my efforts getting the normal driving mode set like I want. Normal commute driving has all shift around 1800 rpm with lock up only in OD at 47.5 mph. Basically, I am lugging the engine taking advantage of the high compression low end torque the turbo isn’t needed for.
Since a 6.2 and na 6.5 both make max torque in the 1,800-2,200 rpm range, I made the truck to keep the engine there. Without a turbo and the egt rise when the boost comes along. I probably wouldn’t have any coolant issues. I wouldn’t go up any hills at speed either. Normal cruising has around 1 psi boost and 400°-450° egt at 60 mph. Aerodynamics starts to beat me up as the speeds get higher. 2-3 psi boost and 500°-600° egt at 75 mph. Followed by a steady rise in coolant temperature.
More coolant flow and faster fan clutch ratio speed I think are what is needed. I started driving the truck with the Delco HO water pump and a 20 year old stock GM fan clutch. 50 mph was all I could cruise at when outside temps were over 90°.
I covered this in depth back in June many post ago. But, I added a Heath Diesel medium duty fan clutch and 21” fan. It was a half measure, I knew it was at the time and yet I did it because I didn’t want to spend the larger amount for the heavy duty option. Or, change the water pump out again. The half measure got me almost where I wanted, but as posted above. Not all the way. In a non OD CUCV. I am sure what I have now would be more than enough. Same thing in a rounder GMT-400 body style truck. Maybe even swapping to 4.11:1 gears would do it. Another water pump and heavy duty fan clutch is a lot cheaper than swapping in CUCV axles. I might end up there some day, but only after I take the steps between here and there. I’m stubborn that way.
Yes, speeding up the water pump probably would help. I’m kind of stuck in “in between land” on this issue. Square body truck designed for gasoline engines, Diesel engine designed for 55 mph speed limits without over drive, radiator also designed for 55 and no OD. Add in the Banks turbo kit, my 35” tires and 3.73 gears. I expected issues.
However, my design goals put me here. Highway cruising at posted speed limits up to 85 mph while getting as close to 20 mpg as I can. For sure 20 plus mpg at 65-70 mph driving. All with ice cold air conditioning and other comforts. Then, be able to pull 10,000 pounds up to 65 mph and get 10 mpg doing it.
I haven’t finished wiring in a mode switch button for the Compushift TCM. When I do, that will be my “Tow/Haul” button in effect since the 4L80E didn’t have that option. I have spent my efforts getting the normal driving mode set like I want. Normal commute driving has all shift around 1800 rpm with lock up only in OD at 47.5 mph. Basically, I am lugging the engine taking advantage of the high compression low end torque the turbo isn’t needed for.
Since a 6.2 and na 6.5 both make max torque in the 1,800-2,200 rpm range, I made the truck to keep the engine there. Without a turbo and the egt rise when the boost comes along. I probably wouldn’t have any coolant issues. I wouldn’t go up any hills at speed either. Normal cruising has around 1 psi boost and 400°-450° egt at 60 mph. Aerodynamics starts to beat me up as the speeds get higher. 2-3 psi boost and 500°-600° egt at 75 mph. Followed by a steady rise in coolant temperature.
More coolant flow and faster fan clutch ratio speed I think are what is needed. I started driving the truck with the Delco HO water pump and a 20 year old stock GM fan clutch. 50 mph was all I could cruise at when outside temps were over 90°.
I covered this in depth back in June many post ago. But, I added a Heath Diesel medium duty fan clutch and 21” fan. It was a half measure, I knew it was at the time and yet I did it because I didn’t want to spend the larger amount for the heavy duty option. Or, change the water pump out again. The half measure got me almost where I wanted, but as posted above. Not all the way. In a non OD CUCV. I am sure what I have now would be more than enough. Same thing in a rounder GMT-400 body style truck. Maybe even swapping to 4.11:1 gears would do it. Another water pump and heavy duty fan clutch is a lot cheaper than swapping in CUCV axles. I might end up there some day, but only after I take the steps between here and there. I’m stubborn that way.
Another Ahab
Well-known member
Hey, Barman, where did you learn all that know-how about boost, output, RPM's and all?
Okay, not quite apples to apples, but with a Banks turbo, 700R4 (had the lockup on a floor mounted dimmer switch), 4.10s, and 35" tires, I never had any issues with my M1009. Temp or EGT. That included eight miles of 8% grade on triple digit California days.
I did install a new radiator, due to leakage, but otherwise the engine remained as it was when I bought it with 13,xxx miles on it, and stayed that way until I sold that M1009 with 40-something thousand miles on the (corrected) odo.
There must be something else not quite right with yours that makes it run hot.
Barrman
Well-known member
Ahab, I read a lot and research just about all the time.
I took several boxes of old metal parts and bad fasteners to the scrap yard Monday. I found out $4.00/100 pounds is the going rate currently. But, I also found out the Cowdog weighs 6,974 pounds with me in it. That is 1800 pounds more than a M1009. Throw in the A/C condenser in front of the radiator. Along with me using cruise control which attacks the hills with hard throttle inputs. I think all this adds up to why I still have an issue. As I posted in my last post. Currently I am real close to having everything right. Just not attacking the hills and letting the speed drop a few mph would probably keep the temps ok.
However, that is driving around relatively flat central Texas at 500 to 800 feet above sea level. I want to be able to drive across the Llano Estacato in August if I need or want to. That means 6000 to 7000 feet elevation and 100° plus temps while going up hill for hundreds of miles at a stretch. I am trying to make it show me the weaknesses so I can solve them.
I also don’t have the ip timing exactly where I think it should be. My great eBay deal MT480 isn’t reading rpm. Could be a bad MT88A magnetic pick up or the machine. I’m still working on it. But that is another variable in the mix.
I took several boxes of old metal parts and bad fasteners to the scrap yard Monday. I found out $4.00/100 pounds is the going rate currently. But, I also found out the Cowdog weighs 6,974 pounds with me in it. That is 1800 pounds more than a M1009. Throw in the A/C condenser in front of the radiator. Along with me using cruise control which attacks the hills with hard throttle inputs. I think all this adds up to why I still have an issue. As I posted in my last post. Currently I am real close to having everything right. Just not attacking the hills and letting the speed drop a few mph would probably keep the temps ok.
However, that is driving around relatively flat central Texas at 500 to 800 feet above sea level. I want to be able to drive across the Llano Estacato in August if I need or want to. That means 6000 to 7000 feet elevation and 100° plus temps while going up hill for hundreds of miles at a stretch. I am trying to make it show me the weaknesses so I can solve them.
I also don’t have the ip timing exactly where I think it should be. My great eBay deal MT480 isn’t reading rpm. Could be a bad MT88A magnetic pick up or the machine. I’m still working on it. But that is another variable in the mix.
It may have been a funky scale, but my 1009 weighed about 6,200 if memory serves me. That always amazed me as it was close to what my '91 454 Crew Cab dually weighed.
I can certainly see that the A/C condenser would make a difference, but on the other hand, what I didn't point out earlier is that the 4.10 geared axles came in relatively late in the game.
In chronological order it was 35s, then the turbo, a year or so later the 700R4, and towards the end the 4.10s. For the very most part the pedal was kept close to the floor board, initially to move at all, later simply because I'm a lead foot. Of course, I have no idea what the temp and EGT readings were before the turbo install.
In my mind, the main difference here would be the condenser. And if the heat can't be easily removed through the coolant, I'd install a good oil cooler. It has worked for me on other vehicles. Can't remember if you already have one, in which case I'd move it from the front to somewhere else, with a fan, of course. Same with the trans cooler.
Another Ahab
Well-known member
I'm kind of remembering reading about that area, and that it was traditional Comanche territory (you know back "in the day").
Do you know anything about that, like if that's right?
Barrman
Well-known member
I have a separate oil cooler along with a separate transmission cooler in front of the condenser which is in front of the radiator. Engine oil cooler is air to air with the oil never going through the radiator oil cooler. The transmission cooler is also air to air with the fluid going through the radiator cooler first.
Normal oil temp taken at the port above the cooler lines is 180°. The highest I have ever had is 200° It does not move very fast and does not fluctuate with the coolant temp.
The transmission fluid temperature is taken in the transmission by the TCM. It is normally at 162°-168°. I have never had it higher than 174°. That was in town and heavy traffic. Once the torque converter locks on the open road it goes down to 165° no matter what the engine is at.
I’ll keep playing and improving.
Yes, the “Staked Plains” have been bad news for centuries. Here is a technical read about it:
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/ryl02
l have to cross or rather climb it no matter which way I go to get to Colorado. I built this truck to take family trips in. But, in the back of my mind. I have been remembering the hours long pulls needed to get across this part of the country.
I did it in 2012 in a 2007 super duty pulling a trailer. Boost near the red line and temps higher than normal. I had to run 64 as a max speed. Same truck a year later with the same trailer going a different route. Same thing.
This year when we dropped Colton off and then picked him up for is bike trip. We had to cross it both times on the way up. Different route again. Our Honda Accord would keep dropping in and out of OD if I ran the speed limit.
I want this truck to be capable of doing it better than what I have driven on it before. Another hard for vehicles area is leaving Albuquerque on I-40 in the summer. Long, long climbs. I don’t want it good enough for around here only to find myself idling on the side of the road waiting for the coolant to change state back to a liquid with the heater running full blast trying to help.
Normal oil temp taken at the port above the cooler lines is 180°. The highest I have ever had is 200° It does not move very fast and does not fluctuate with the coolant temp.
The transmission fluid temperature is taken in the transmission by the TCM. It is normally at 162°-168°. I have never had it higher than 174°. That was in town and heavy traffic. Once the torque converter locks on the open road it goes down to 165° no matter what the engine is at.
I’ll keep playing and improving.
Yes, the “Staked Plains” have been bad news for centuries. Here is a technical read about it:
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/ryl02
l have to cross or rather climb it no matter which way I go to get to Colorado. I built this truck to take family trips in. But, in the back of my mind. I have been remembering the hours long pulls needed to get across this part of the country.
I did it in 2012 in a 2007 super duty pulling a trailer. Boost near the red line and temps higher than normal. I had to run 64 as a max speed. Same truck a year later with the same trailer going a different route. Same thing.
This year when we dropped Colton off and then picked him up for is bike trip. We had to cross it both times on the way up. Different route again. Our Honda Accord would keep dropping in and out of OD if I ran the speed limit.
I want this truck to be capable of doing it better than what I have driven on it before. Another hard for vehicles area is leaving Albuquerque on I-40 in the summer. Long, long climbs. I don’t want it good enough for around here only to find myself idling on the side of the road waiting for the coolant to change state back to a liquid with the heater running full blast trying to help.
That's a lot of heat, and air restrictions, in front of the radiator. I only had a meaningful trans cooler.
You may want to look into evacuating air from the engine compartment. Gale Banks once suggested rather large holes in the inner fenders, but I don't remember the position he mentioned. It better be a low pressure area for it to work.
Well, there's a big difference in laminar flow over a vehicle at 1-5 mph (trail) and at 60+ mph. On my Jeep I raised the rear of the hood about 1/2-inch to create an escape route for the heat, and it works fine. But if it had a windshield it wouldn't work at all at higher speeds, since that becomes a high pressure area.
Louvers should help, if they're in the forward half of the hood, but personally I'd rather look at a temp gauge that reads a bit high than at louvers.