can a deuce ever be very reliable?

I've got my eye on a '72 m35a2 it looks really good I'd post pics but I don't think the forum will let me.

It appears to have a rebuild about 300 hours/ 3k miles ago.

It has little rust it's complete and apparently runs very good. It's 500 miles away so I can't just pop out to take a look.

As the title says, Can these trucks actually be made as reliable as a early /mid 70's pickup? I'd really like to be able to hop in one for a 3 day road trip without loosing sleep about breaking down.

From my reading, they seem to have very steady breakdowns. But I will be the first to admit, I am very new to this hobby.

To be honest I am about to purchase a late 50's pickup truck or a deuce. The intended use is for a fun vehicle for me and my boy to cruise on weekends, maybe the odd roadtrip/camping/fishing excursion, and maybe put it in a few local parades to advertise my construction company.

I know I can make the pickup uber reliable the parts are easy to get too.
Can I get the same reliability from a big MV?

(Im not talking burned out lights or windshield seals, I'm talking catastrophic transfer case breakdown or a blown turbo. Major repairs)

thanks. If I'm allowed to post pics I will certainly put a few of the prospective truck

John

You can post pictures, just no links to ads or auctions.

Ehh, its a grab bag.

I've had a drain plug fall out of the oil pan while I was going 60mph and all I did was burn up the turbo. No oil pressure loss. The same truck was rolled onto its side during a training exercise. We flipped it back on its wheels and drove back to camp. You will hear about all the bad, but not much of the good.

If you go through the axles, drain and replace the fluids in the driveline, make sure the brakes are in good shape, I'd say you should be good to go. I'd recommend the same thing for a 50s era pickup too.

JT Wood said:

I've got my eye on a '72 m35a2 it looks really good I'd post pics but I don't think the forum will let me.

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Forum won't let you? Do a search for pictures tutorial, I don't think there are any restrictions.

JT Wood said:

It appears to have a rebuild about 300 hours/ 3k miles ago.

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First, without paperwork showing what was done and when (calendar wise), I'd consider this almost irrelevant. Sure, maybe the oil pump and bearings only have 300 hours, but if this "rebuild" was done 10 years ago, then there are dozens of seals that are losing their elasticity or their sealing or they're drying out, rubber brake hoses dry rotting, etc.

And the military had lots of rebuild programs-some were in depth, frame up rebuilds, some were "overhauls" and some were what I'd call major maintenance. Without some paperwork showing exactly what was done............ you don't really know and neither does the seller.

JT Wood said:

It has little rust it's complete and apparently runs very good. It's 500 miles away so I can't just pop out to take a look.

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Ask him to shoot video. I do this for any truck buyer who is a long way off. I don't want someone driving 200 mph and be disappointed and start yelling at me.

JT Wood said:

As the title says, Can these trucks actually be made as reliable as a early /mid 70's pickup? I'd really like to be able to hop in one for a 3 day road trip without loosing sleep about breaking down.

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That's a complex question.

Short answer? Probably.

Long answer?

It's never going to be a 2016 Honda Civic. It will probably be better than a 200K mile Yugo. It'll fall somewhere in between those two extremes. Where between those two points? You won't know until you buy it and start using it.

The newest M35A2 you're gonna' buy is a 1989 model, which is now 27 years old............ people started doing ground up, frame off restorations on musclecars in the 1980's, when they were only 15+ years old. Engines and major stuff aren't the only thing that wear out on motor vehicles. Everything wears out-that's why in the US alone, 10-15 million new vehicles are sold every year.

It can be made as reliable as a 1950's pickup.

Here's all the stuff that'll give you grief:

Radiators
Hoses/belts/fuel hoses
Injection pumps-they'll wear out (hydraulic head, plunger issues, etc.). The seals will go bad and they'll leak. The interior seals (o-rings) will fail and they'll bleed fuel into the crankcase.
Steering boxes will wear out and leak and be sloppy.
Transmissions do occasionally fail. 2nd gear is a weak point and I've had a couple break the input bearing retainer. Like any manual, bearings and synchros wear out, necessitating rebuild or replacement
Transfers-Occasionally, they start falling out of high range due to gear wear. About all you can do is replace it.
Axles-seals are a common issue and pinion bearings/seals are a reasonably frequent thing to replace
Brake system-6 wheel cylinders that can leak, 30+ year old steel lines that can fail (I've had it happen, not pleasant), hoses rot, master cylinders leak and airpacks fail. Honestly, any deuce you buy, I'd just accept that you're gonna' rebuild or replace everything.
Alternators-I had 2 alternators on different trucks die this week alone and on low mileage trucks. This stuff is getting old-one of them was the 15K mile (documented) unit on my '87 USAF deuce. Might only have 15K miles but it's 29 years old (I think-haven't found a date code). Takeout alternators aren't growing on trees and rebuild parts can be difficult to source or costly. Some folks are rigging civvy 24V alternators on their trucks and that is a more cost effective route, although it's not for me.
Wiring harnesses-I doubt many M35's went through rebuilds after the early Nineties, so the newest wiring harnesses are 25+ years old. I've had plenty of trucks where the wiring was just rotten-dry rotted, corroded wires, etc.
Engines-two kinds of multifuel owners: those that have done head gaskets and those that are gonna' do them.
Tires-just due to their design, they chew up tires, especially fronts. Ways to mitigate it are radial tires, lockout hubs, good shocks, etc., but it's kind of like how Porsche 911 models will always wear out rear tires quickly... it's just part of their DNA.
Rear suspension dogbones/torque rods-they are a wear item and they have rubber that gets hard and dry rots and if one comes loose, your day will suck. Replacements available but not cheap.

JT Wood said:

From my reading, they seem to have very steady breakdowns. But I will be the first to admit, I am very new to this hobby.

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I'm not sure what the exact term is, but I suspect there's some "selection bias" here..........................

People post on internet forums to try and fix their problems......... the same way everyone who has a bad experience at a bar will post a negative review but only 1 out of 10 people who have a great time will post a review. Same here..... no one is posting "Hey, I drove my deuce 6 months and 5K miles without any issues". People post here when they have an issue.

JT Wood said:

To be honest I am about to purchase a late 50's pickup truck or a deuce. The intended use is for a fun vehicle for me and my boy to cruise on weekends, maybe the odd roadtrip/camping/fishing excursion, and maybe put it in a few local parades to advertise my construction company.

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If you are conscientious about maintenance, these tasks are very easy for an M35 and I think you won't have much issue.

JT Wood said:

I know I can make the pickup uber reliable the parts are easy to get too.
Can I get the same reliability from a big MV?

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I bought my '87 USAF M35A2C in 2011 with documented 11K miles (I got all the paperwork with it). Now has 15K.

I've done the following in terms of repairs / maintenance:

Flushed entire fuel system, vatted fuel tank, replaced all lines, resealed injection pump, etc.
Flushed and bled brakes
Replaced all tires
Pulled all 6 drums and hubs, new seals, packed bearings, etc.
Various lights, bulbs, flasher relay, etc.
All new hoses and belts
Alternator (as of today)
Greased everything

I would consider myself extremely lucky for a vehicle of this size and complexity at this age and mileage.

JT Wood said:

(Im not talking burned out lights or windshield seals, I'm talking catastrophic transfer case breakdown or a blown turbo. Major repairs)

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Possible, just hard to predict likelihood.

JT Wood said:

thanks. If I'm allowed to post pics I will certainly put a few of the prospective truck

John

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We'd like to see it.

Pics if they work



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On the reliability issue, just like "gimpyrobb" and "clinto" said it depends. Any vehicle that has had good maintenance done on it will be reliable and any vehicle that is just driven until something breaks will not perform well. I don't care if it's a Honda, Chevy, Ford, Subaru, Military 6X6, any vehicle will run as well as it's maintenance. Good maintenance - good running ! Now the Deuce has a major issue when it comes to reliability. They have a reputation of durability so they get used hard. They where built tough as nails and used hard and as long as the military maintained them they where OK. Enter the civilian world. Some people take this truck and think it can go forever with minimum maintenance and then sell it to someone else who now has a can of worms on his hands. All they see is all the problems this truck has, not knowing it has not been maintained properly. So is the deuce a "Bad" truck ? No, of course not. Is it reliable ? It is as reliable as "you" make it.
Also remember just like "clinto" said these trucks are now "old" . Mine is a 1988, that means it's a 28 year old vehicle. Seen many 28 year old trucks on construction sites ? I haven't. In fact I just overheard some guy talking about his "old" 2000 Dodge the other day at the hydraulic store. He was thinking of getting a new 2017 Chevy for his company. You might hear someone say "this truck has low mileage" . Means nothing really as all the rubber items ie: belts, hoses, seals, hydraulics, and bushings are now rotting due to "age" . There is nothing you can do about rubber aging except replace it with "New" rubber. Not "NOS" rubber either as that is also old rubber. My 1984 CUCV has only 45,000 original miles on it. Just this summer I have had to replace all the suspension bushings and last year I replaced all the cab and box mounts. Thankfully they make "poly" bushings now so they will last much longer.
I'm sorry I'm just rambling on here, but I'm trying to get you to understand that any piece of equipment and I mean "ANY" piece of equipment that has Not had proper maintenance will have problems, and until you fix it and fix it correctly it will not be dependable.

How is it to get parts? Is there good aftermarket support? I ran into that issue with my last landcruiser (1969 fj40) some parts were not available so I had to be creative or scrounge for 40 yr old pieces. I realize there will be maintenance and hiccups, I just don't want to have to perform driveline changes if I blow up a ujoint or burn up the clutch. I want a vehicle I can replace damaged parts. Does that make sense? I can basically build a new flat fender jeep from aftermarket. I'm hoping the deuce has options as well because flat fenders are too little

I'm just trying to get the good and bad established before I pull the trigger.


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JT Wood said:

How is it to get parts? Is there good aftermarket support? I ran into that issue with my last landcruiser (1969 fj40) some parts were not available so I had to be creative or scrounge for 40 yr old pieces. I realize there will be maintenance and hiccups, I just don't want to have to perform driveline changes if I blow up a ujoint or burn up the clutch. I want a vehicle I can replace damaged parts. Does that make sense? I can basically build a new flat fender jeep from aftermarket. I'm hoping the deuce has options as well because flat fenders are too little

I'm just trying to get the good and bad established before I pull the trigger.


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Parts should not be an issue with this truck. There is plenty of "Surplus Dealers" out there and still quite a few trucks just floating around in peoples back yards. In fact there was a bunch of NOS engines that were sold from the Gov Liquidation in California a few months ago. They are selling for around $4,000 to $5,000 dollars right now. The only problem in parts right now is some small stuff like driveline bolts (which can be bought from some dealers) and other nik-nak stuff. Most of these can be replaced with new modern bolts and such though.

As others said up to date maintenance so that means you will be working hard when you first get the truck to play catch up. The other maintenance is when you go fording or heavy mudding there are things you must do right away. Main thing with this hobby is have fun and be safe in your driving habits as your driving can effect all of us.

There are some parts that can be cross referenced from other vehicles, like gaskets, hoses and steel brake lines as an example. You just have to do a little research.
Plus this sight is a wealth of knowledge! The archives have helped me in all kinds of ways, from figuring out the best way to dismantle and reassemble various assemblies, to finding a vendor to recreate faded data plates.

Something else to consider in your decision and not knowing the laws were you are is if any special license for the larger deuce and / or you is required because of it's GVWR or number of axles. Some areas consider these to be commercial vehicles regardless of the age and are obligated to meet all the current commercial licensing and maintenance requirements. Do you have restrictions in your community that could be a problem ? Just want to bring up a few issues that quite a few over the years didn't give any thought to till after the fact and became a large headache. There are a large number of inhabitants of the planet that don't consider military vehicles the thing to have in their neighborhood.

Along those lines about your neighborhood not liking your military vehicles......I may be an army of one, but I consider knitting and crocheting to be a disgusting waste of time. It should be banned! My county needs a new ordinance, they do not have this atrocious behavior covered yet(everything I like to do already is). If you insist on knitting it must be done in doors, in a windowless room, and you must not tell anyone that you are doing it or the newly established knitting police dept will be sending their swat team.

JTWood

Yes these vehicles can be reliable as many others have stated. I think even Rusty stated, it's not going to be your late model Honda grocery getter, but considering what it was designed for, the age and how well it is maintained will determine how reliable it is.

As for the maintenance aspect, are you capable of performing the work yourself or will you have to rely on a local shop to do the work for you?

If you have a place and the tools to do "most" of the maintenance work yourself, then you will save yourself a bunch of money and really know your truck. Replacing or repairing parts "before" they break is the way the military would take care of these, but they also had a much larger budget to do that, and also not everything you can foresee before it breaks.

I work with a notion that goes safety 1st, function and then form. It works for me, it may for you. As long as it it is safe and works is fine, there is always time to make it look pretty later.
With that being said, the engine is secondary, brakes tires and such become primary, because if you can't stop it, what sense does it make to get it rolling.

It doesn't hurt to do a overall inspection like others have stated, draining the fluids and refilling them or changing the filters. My truck, M818, is 45 years old, runs like a top, but there are some things with it that are secondary issues.
The engine was rebuilt/replaced in '85, still that was 30 years ago, but it runs perfectly. The brakes work fine but my tires are old, showing cracks and other signs that they need replacing.
You'll find that common with these trucks, because they sit for long periods of time exposed to the elements.

But with all that said, with my truck, I was still able to make a round trip up to the mountains (400 miles est.) without any real issue. Now that was 150 miles of highway driving each way and 50 miles of trails, I call that reliable.

As far as special licensing, I have a Class 1 CDL (semi trucks) so I am good to go for that. I'm on 3 acres, so I don't have any problems with neighbors. In fact, I will likely be putting up a 40 x 80 shop this fall so I might even be able to park all my equipment inside I have an '85 international auger/crane truck and a 30' towable man lift. (maybe a deuce too)

I'm glad to hear that parts are not that hard to come by.

I had a side question, what about the 923 5 ton. Are they still being made?

JT Wood said:

I had a side question, what about the 923 5 ton. Are they still being made?

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I believe they are, not that we will see any of the later models up for auction anytime soon, but as far as I know, they are still producing that series.

They have been putting out more MRAP style trucks for conflict zones, but the 939 series is still in full swing until they feel the need to redesign the role of that truck. Keep in mind that this series has been in production since '82.

I just brought a M35 deuce home this morning that had been sitting about 8 years, dead batteries and not started the entire time. It had sunk into the ground almost to the axles. On the way the throttle return spring broke giving me full throttle when I didn't want it. It just so happens that the stop cable was disconnected too. Add throttle return spring to the list of things to check.
Before you buy one look at one with the winch. In my opinion they look really good with that winch up front. I'll get a picture of this one before I pressure wash it.

On the fly, bungee cords make excellent throttle return springs!

Spare throttle and brake return spring in the glove compartment - check! Put those in when I first read about them breaking. Of course, having spares means that Murphy just moves on to break other things instead.

I can't afford to own junk. I purchased my M35A3 with 2900 miles in 2009. It now has 36,000 and a few miles. It is driven every few days, always parked indoors except when loaded, and maintained regularly. It has never failed to work when called upon. Never a road call, breakdown...nothing.

Good lookin truck! Nice place too.