12v winch on 24v

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m16ty

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I've got a trailer that I pull with the deuce and also pull it with my civilain Dodge. I'm thinking about adding a winch to it to load disabled vehicles. I've seen people run 12v starters and hyd pumps on 24v without problems so it got me to thinking. Can I run a 12v winch on 24v?
 

m16ty

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Thanks Gimpy.

I have to admit it's hard to take advice from somebody with a pink Barbie SUV in their avatar though. :grin:
 

gimpyrobb

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I did some searching and couldn't find what I wanted. I believe if the motor has brushes, you will be fine. I will see what else I can find.
 

m16ty

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Yea, I read the link you posted but didn't really come to a conclusion. I'll have to admit that some of the stuff they were talking about was over my head. Doesn't almost all DC motors have brushes?
 

tennmogger

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This question has come up for use on 24v Unimogs. The answer is...maybe you can run the 12v winch motor on 24 v but seldom will the control relays handle twice the current. At 24 v the 12v motor will draw much more current and turn faster, of course. Lots of older tractor owners run their 6 volt starters on 12v and get by with it for years, but those usually don't have relays (manual switching).

Why not put a 12v battery on the trailer along with the winch. This solves two problems, it gets 12v power close to the winch and eliminates the need to run long cables (with connectors) from the truck battery.

Then trickle charge the 12v battery off the truck system through a 24 to 12v converter.

If usage is short term, the 12v battery might get the job done without connection to the truck, then charge it when you get to shore power.

A short term charge can be done by running the 24v from the truck through a headlight bulb in series, to the 12v battery. Don't leave it like that or the battery will cook eventually.

Bob

v
Yea, I read the link you posted but didn't really come to a conclusion. I'll have to admit that some of the stuff they were talking about was over my head. Doesn't almost all DC motors have brushes?
 

m16ty

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I've thought about installing a 12v battery to run the winch but a good sized winch will drain a 12v battery pretty quick in a hard pull.

At 24v will the winch accually draw more current? According to the link Gimpy posted, the motor will run on 1/2 of the current on 24v (if I understood it correctly).

What I had in mind was to install a slave cable plug on my dodge and use a slave cable to run the winch on the Dodge and the M35. I don't mind changing the relays to manual contacts if I have to to make it work. I just don't want to burn the motor up.

I also realize that the winch will have double the pulling power on 24V so I know I'll have to be careful not to overload it on 24v.
 

glcaines

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At 24v will the winch accually draw more current? According to the link Gimpy posted, the motor will run on 1/2 of the current on 24v (if I understood it correctly).
On 24 VDC the current will drop to half what 12 VDC will need. This also means that you can get by with smaller gauge cables to the winch. A friend of mine ran a Warn winch on 24 VDC for years without problems on an M37. He also minimized the duration of pulls, although I don't know if this helped or not.
 

tennmogger

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You guys are thinking constant Wattage.

For achieving the same "Wattage", the current at 24v will be half that at 12v. (Watts = volts x amps). You can't make the motor draw less wattage at higher voltage!!

That DC motor is a big honking resistance. As voltage doubles across a resistance, the current doubles.

I = E/R, and R is constant (for all practical calculations) so as E doubles to 24v, I (amps) does too.

If you want to try that winch on 24v, you can put resistors in series with the relay coils to limit the current to the coils. That will make your relay pack survive. The motor will still be a 'maybe' if you load it down.

As for doubling the load capability of the winch, it's mechanical system would not handle twice the load. (If the mechanicals could handle twice the load, the marketing geniuses would have called it a bigger winch. They already stretch the truth.)

Also consider that the Wattage dissipated in the motor, at 24v instead of 12v, will quadruple!! That sucker is going to heat up fast.

Watts = volts x amps, and both volts and amps are doubling (with resistance constant).

Now, in reality, the commutator in the motor cannot transfer all that power as well at much faster speed. The brushes will arc more and heat more, and that will limit current somewhat....for a short time.

Another option is to buy a 24v motor for your winch. You might need one anyway if you hook the 12 v winch to 24 v :)

Bob
 
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glcaines

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You guys are thinking constant Wattage.

For achieving the same "Wattage", the current at 24v will be half that at 12v. (Watts = volts x amps). You can't make the motor draw less wattage at higher voltage!!

That DC motor is a big honking resistance. As voltage doubles across a resistance, the current doubles.

I = E/R, and R is constant (for all practical calculations) so as E doubles to 24v, I (amps) does too.
Bob,
You are correct, of course. I was thinking constant wattage.
 

bgekky3

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I run a Warn 9000 lb winch with a 12v deep cycle battery. You will have no trouble loading a broken down vehicle on a trailer before the battery dies. I use mine when I cut down trees. After pulling a few downed trees to the clearing, it is time for a recharge.
 

m16ty

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Aren't there 24 volt winches available? That seems to be the answer to me, but then I'm gettin' old and cranky.:roll:
That would work but I also want to run it on 12v, as stated in my original post.


After reading the responses here and elsewhere on the internet I've found out that people that know about electric motors say it won't work long but I've also heard of serveral people that have done it without problems. I may buy a cheap winch and try it.
 

tm america

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The motor will hold up fine with 24 volts.The relays are a different story they will not take it...you could add one of my 12 volt alt kits and a 12 volt battery for the best setup....Then you can run all your 12 volt accessories and not have to worry about it
 

bgekky3

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Here are some pics of trees I loaded on my trailer today. I am using a Warn 9k winch with an Interstate deep cycle battery. The battery was running low on the last log.

I know I need a new cable. It started to unravel today.
 

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oldMan99

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We use a 8,000lb Warn mounted on a trailer with a single stand alone deep cycle battery on the car hauler trailer. We have used it to pull a DOA forklift (VERY HEAVY - probably 2x any normal vehicle you would pull onto your trailer) and the battery did just fine. Probably could have pulled a second forklift up w/o problem. I would bet that you could pull 3 or 4 normal car/pick-up's w/o problem between charges. This assumes of course that you start the day with a charged battery. If you are at all worried about it, just install 2 batteries in parallel, you'll have more than enough juice!

NOTE: In an application like this deep cycle batteries are a must. Normal batteries will not last very long at all.

The civilian 1 ton that pulls it has a low amperage charging wire for a trailer, this is used to help keep the battery topped off. When winching we have to unplug that or the fuse blows. You could do the same thing on your 12v vehicle and on the MV you could use one of the relatively inexpensive low amperage 24 to 12v converters. But... as noted, as long as you leave for the day with a charged battery(s) you should be just fine. We just like to have a back-up plan to the back up plan....

Somebody asked if 24v winches are made, yes they are. Warn makes several, one is a 18,000lb unit that normally sells for $800-900, I have read here on SS that some members have used it on their Deuce/5 ton with good results. I'm pretty sure Ramsey makes some as well. (However, as the OP already noted, this will not really work for him since he needs to be able to use it behind his 12v civilian vehicle also.)
.
 

housemover

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Someone on the site is running a 12v dump system on 24v. If I my memory is working I think it's working out for them. You mite search that out and get some real world knowledge
 

rchalmers3

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I ran a 12v Warn winch on my 24v Landcruiser for 3 years. I used the winch about a dozen times without problems.

When it finally failed, one of the "in" relays failed. The pull in windings burnt out. I replaced all four solenoids with 24v units and have continued to operate the winch as a 12v motor powered by 24v.

I have read a thread here somewhere that there are devices that will balance the voltages of your batteries, and thus allow you to use a single battery to operate your 12v accessories.

EDIT: I see Ty knows about battery equalizers, after searching the deuce forum!

Rick
 
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