15 minute rule - flustrating

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moleary

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If you think that what you spend in an auction goes to the government you are mistaken. Just look at the paperwork that comes with your SF-97. GL buys the trucks from 50-250 dollars for a deuce. That is months before they go to auction. Price is based on a maintenance report done by the army when the truck is turned in. I paid 2800 for a M35 w/w and FF heater. GL paid the Government 175. So bidding more does not help the national debt. GL profits. Now I am glad that sniping is not allowed at GL. I think it is slimey...
As best I can tell, that's not an accurate statement - you are purchasing from the government, GL acts as an agent to that end. While a portion of the proceeds go to GL, it is a percentage of the total sale. The more you pay the more the government gets.
 

rumplecat

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Well I don't like the ( I thought it was 20 min. on GSA rule) but I really don't like the $10 increments! Move it up to $50 min. and weed out the weak sisters! I was bidding on a Deuce in Olive Mount GSA in Mississippi the bidding should have ended at 6:20, the last time I checked on the Deuce it was around 10;30 and it had only moved about $230! I just went to bed!
James
 

Nonotagain

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I never have my heart set on just one particular truck. I'll find several in any one sale so I'll have some to fall back on if the price gets to high on some of them.
Prior to the start of the auction, I make my list of items that I want to bid on and a value that I think each is worth to me. I then assign a priority to each item.

Once I submit my bids, I look at the bidders list to see if the same bidders numbers are also showing up on the same items that I am interested in.

Once the auction gets down to the last 20 minutes I do a re-evaluation of where the bids are at and may abandon an item and jump to the next item if I see that one on my list is not being hit on.

If you are bidding on some smallish items that you have to travel a distance to pick-up, I may over pay so that I'm not making a trip for next to nothing.

And I also don't like the 15 minute rule.
 

Nonotagain

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As best I can tell, that's not an accurate statement - you are purchasing from the government, GL acts as an agent to that end. While a portion of the proceeds go to GL, it is a percentage of the total sale. The more you pay the more the government gets.
As for purchasing from the Government, Have you ever seen on the Bill of Ladings on some of the GL items that you purchased?

I have two of them. GL moved one of my trailers from 20 miles north of my house to Chambersburg PA for $694 dollars that was billed to the government.. I only paid $1220 for the auction in total.

The last trailers I purchased were moved from Massachusetts to Ft Meade, MD. That move cost the government another $1163 (this was for 3 M105a3 trailers). I paid $1015 for two trailers including fees.

Save the outrage for the real culprits and stop all the musical chair BS. If GL wants to be in the business of selling government surplus, man the locations where the items are turned in or eat the price of the shipping to central locations so that the taxpayers get the benefit of the sale and not a chosen trucking company.
 

Floridianson

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Thats the way to do it stumps - Figure out what it is worth to you - bid that amount - if you get it for that or less - good you didn't over pay. If it goes for more than what it is worth to you - still good because you know you didn't over pay - someone else did.
You say over pay but maybe what you think it is worth is no where close to what the real value is?
 

atankersdad

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As best I can tell, that's not an accurate statement - you are purchasing from the government, GL acts as an agent to that end. While a portion of the proceeds go to GL, it is a percentage of the total sale. The more you pay the more the government gets.
Check your paperwork. GL pays for the trucks before the auction. In some cases up to a year before the auction date. When you get the SF 97 paperwork, look at the transactions dates at when the item was transferred and what they paid. My last truck was 3 months before I bid.
 

moleary

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save the outrage for the real culprits and stop all the musical chair bs. If gl wants to be in the business of selling government surplus, man the locations where the items are turned in or eat the price of the shipping to central locations so that the taxpayers get the benefit of the sale and not a chosen trucking company.
I wouldn't refer to it as outrage - I've found that rage doesn't accomplish much. I do however completely agree with your point that the shipping of surplus to locations that consolidate the lots appears to be a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.

On the surface there isn't any reasonable justification for this relocation of inventory, and unless there is something at play here that we don't understand I believe this deserves a reasonable level of inquiry from a party who has oversight responsibility.

The only reason that immediately jumps out at me for the relocation would be if the number of lots available at an individual location wouldn't support a full time GL representative. In that case consolidating the items makes sense, as the incremental item cost to the government for the auction management would exceed the cost of individual relocation.

Just my 2cents
 

jason@snakeriver

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I personally don't care one way or the other about the 15 minute rule, I just do as stumps said...I put my bid in and wait. I like to watch the end of the auctions, but I always try to stay within what I think the item is worth to me.

I can however see how this rule could be problematic, and would really pi$$ me off if it ever happened to me.

Let's say that there is something coming up for bid that you wanted pretty badly, and you know you could get it for minimum bid because there are a bunch of them (plus it's not worth any more than the minimum to you). So you put your bid in early, and wait. Now it's 1 minute before the auction closes, you have your lot(s) at the minimum bid and most of the rest are spoken for with minimum bids also (a few have no bids on them at all). Now 5 seconds before the auction ends some jacka$$ comes in and, rather than put a bid on one of the items that has no bid, bids on your item at the last second. This extends the item you wanted by 15 minutes. But at the same time the 4 other items that had no bid on them at all, are now closed and there is no chance of you getting one of them for the minimum.

A situation like this would really make me mad. :evil: I know it's probably never going to happen, but it is an example of how the 15 minute rule could bite you in the a$$.

Since I started this thread, I wll try to wind it down. The above quote sums up the situation I was getting into with the 14 similar trucks.
I appreciate all of your input.
I guess the only thing that makes me madder is to go to an oral auction and have you mind set on one item. They take that item and keep shoveing it to the end of the auction, or they lump it in with a bunch of items that you are not interested in.
I do worry about the Gov't's bottom line, but I found out in life, that my bottom line is more important.
Thanks, everyone.
 

m16ty

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Let's say that there is something coming up for bid that you wanted pretty badly, and you know you could get it for minimum bid because there are a bunch of them (plus it's not worth any more than the minimum to you). So you put your bid in early, and wait. Now it's 1 minute before the auction closes, you have your lot(s) at the minimum bid and most of the rest are spoken for with minimum bids also (a few have no bids on them at all). Now 5 seconds before the auction ends some jacka$$ comes in and, rather than put a bid on one of the items that has no bid, bids on your item at the last second. This extends the item you wanted by 15 minutes. But at the same time the 4 other items that had no bid on them at all, are now closed and there is no chance of you getting one of them for the minimum.
I've had very similar things accually happen. The bad part is if they had the ebay style rules in place I would still more than likely be sniped at the end and still be mad :x.

While I don't like the 15min rule I've also been mad on ebay auctions with fixed ending times when I get sniped at the last second. I always get over it though and I guess the 15min rule just makes you mad for a little bit longer :-D.
 

NMC_EXP

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If the bidder honestly believes the item is worth $1.00, and he loses for $1.01, he has lost because he believes the item is worth only $1.00. If he was willing to pay $1.02, then he should have set his proxy bid for $1.02, not $1.00.

He would have lost no matter what; because, if I couldn't have bid using a snipe, I would have set my proxy for the maximum that I was willing to pay, and beat him.
Finally, you are using the service as it was meant to be used. You set your maximum bid, and let things fall out where they may.
And following the rules and winning doesn't?

There are plenty of live auction houses out there where you can go head-to-head. Just not on eBay.

Keep thinking: What would have happened if you set your proxy bid at $5.01, and I set my snipe at $5.00?

I have no way of knowing what your proxy bid is set for when I set up my snipe. I make a judgment about the maximum I am willing to bid, and the snipe program bids that amount.

The part I think you are still missing is I set my maximum bid when I set up my snipe, and that maximum amount gets sent to eBay as my bid. There are no do-overs. If my maximum bid is too low, I lose. Simple as that.
I don't believe it is the object of any bidder to set the true market value of an item. I believe the object is to win the item for a price the bidder is willing to pay.

-Chuck
Chuck

I do not know here to begin with the defense of sniping on ebay. To me it smells like a twinge of conscience over following the philosophy of never giving a sucker an even break.

Before you run with the sucker comment, be advised, since I figured out the sniping tactic my win rate on ebay is close to 100%.

Is sniping dishonest....No.

Is sniping a rule violation...No.

Is it an up-front, "look a man in the eye" way to do business....not even maybe.

The bottom line is that ebay sniping as opposed to head to head bidding allows the sniper to win an auction by a miniscule percentage of the total final price by virtue of software and a fast, reliable modem.

Everyone wants a good deal. But not everyone is willing to pay market price.

A real auction is the most reliable way to establish the market price, at least among the bidders involved.

Side issue:
I have noted the double standard on this website regarding the info blackout on in-process Gov Liq and GSA auctions as compared to anything goes regarding in-process ebay auctions.

Why the double standard? Why is having more potential bidders (higher prices) on GL and GSA a bad thing (rhetorical question) but encouraged on ebay? Is there systematic ebay collusion among some SS members on ebay?

I don't get it.

Regards

Jim
 

m16ty

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Sniping has it's advatages but you still can't tell what the other bidders proxy is.

Lets say an item has a starting bid of $1. I bid $100 the day the auction opens by proxy. When it gets down to a few seconds left the bid is at $50. You jump in at the last second and bid $75. Even though I bid several days before auction end and you bid at the last second, I still win it for $75.

The auction posting rule is what it is. I personally like it the way it is. I know some like it and some don't but the bottom line is this is chris' site and he makes the rules.
 

KsM715

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Because Chris aka steelsoldier owns the site and he writes the rules.


And alot of sellers on Ebay are members here so yes in one way it increases the final sale price for the buyer but also increases the sale price for the seller. As far as GL is concerend I dont think Chris wants to have any possibility of anyone doing anything even remotely close to colusion on a GL/GSA sale so he forbids any discussion until after the auction is over. Example: "Is anyone bidding in sale#### lot####? If so let me know, I dont want to bid against a fellow member and drive the price up." In my short time here Ive seen that exact post, and thats exactly what SteelSoldiers is trying to avoid. If the rules forbid discussing any current GL/GSA auction then we won't have that problem.
 
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stumps

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Hi Jim,

There are two sides to every story. I snipe, so I turn the auction into a fixed bid auction. Others like to diddle the numbers up to the maximum they can without winning. Back before I sniped (I started doing it manually), I used to just put my maximum bid in. Then I would watch the same bidder inch the price up a buck at a time until he beat my number. It was all right there in the history file.

So, I got tired of that, and brought out a stop watch, calculated the exact time, and tossed my bid in 15 seconds before the end of the auction. I got pretty good at it too! It kept away the diddlers, and I started to win a few. It got pretty tiring having to get up at 3AM just to place a bid.

I can't think of the last time I won an auction for a truly low amount. 9 wins out of ten, I win for just pennies below my maximum price. I wouldn't have bid any more regardless of whether I sniped, or sat on a bench with a paddle in my hand.

I lose the majority of the auctions I bid in. The other parties want it more, so set a higher proxy bid and win. Such is life.

You are entitled to see smarmy behavior wherever you want to see it. Your impression of my bidding practices isn't going to change my ways one bit.

I have no twinge of conscience on this one. I know I am right.

-Chuck
 
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m16ty

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Hi Jim,

There are two sides to every story. I snipe, so I turn the auction into a fixed bid auction. Others like to diddle the numbers up to the maximum they can without winning. Back before I sniped (I started doing it manually), I used to just put my maximum bid in. Then I would watch the same bidder inch the price up a buck at a time until he beat my number. It was all right there in the history file.
I don't snipe. Mainly because I'm on dail-up :-(. I do try and bid within the last 5 min if I can. Seems like some people will just keep bidding to just see how high your proxy is if you bid early, the "diddlers" as you say.

I still don't understand why people bump the bid one increment time and time again on ebay and GL. I was bidding on a truck on GL one time. I put in a proxy bid of $1,800 and the truck was at less than $1,000 right at close. Some guy bids one increment right at the last second (which extends the auction 15 min). I thought that's fine I'm still the high bidder. Then a few seconds before the 15 min is up he bids one increment again :x. Then a third bidder jumps in because this is the only truck still up for auction. After an hour of this crap I finally win the truck for a little over $1,700.
 

NMC_EXP

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Because Chris aka steelsoldier owns the site and write the rules.


And alot of sellers on Ebay are members here so yes in one way it increases the final sale price for the buyer but also increases the sale price for the seller. As far as GL is concerend I dont think Chris wants to have any possibility of anyone doing anything even remotely close to colusion on a GL/GSA sale so he forbids any discussion until after the auction is over. Example: "Is anyone bidding in sale#### lot####? If so let me know, I dont want to bid against a fellow member and drive the price up." In my short time here Ive seen that exact post, and thats exactly what SteelSoldiers is trying to avoid. If the rules forbid discussing any current GL/GSA auction then we won't have that problem.
Jeff

That's all fine and dandy. But my question remains: Why are GSA/GL treated differently from ebay?

Regards

Jim
 

NMC_EXP

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Hi Jim,

There are two sides to every story. I snipe, so I turn the auction into a fixed bid auction. Others like to diddle the numbers up to the maximum they can without winning. Back before I sniped (I started doing it manually), I used to just put my maximum bid in. Then I would watch the same bidder inch the price up a buck at a time until he beat my number. It was all right there in the history file.

So, I got tired of that, and brought out a stop watch, calculated the exact time, and tossed my bid in 15 seconds before the end of the auction. I got pretty good at it too! It kept away the diddlers, and I started to win a few. It got pretty tiring having to get up at 3AM just to place a bid.

I can't think of the last time I won an auction for a truly low amount. 9 wins out of ten, I win for just pennies below my maximum price. I wouldn't have bid any more regardless of whether I sniped, or sat on a bench with a paddle in my hand.

I lose the majority of the auctions I bid in. The other parties want it more, so set a higher proxy bid and win. Such is life.

You are entitled to see smarmy behavior wherever you want to see it. Your impression of my bidding practices isn't going to change my ways one bit.

I have no twinge of conscience on this one. I know I am right.

-Chuck
Chuck

I understand your rationale. However, I do not believe people bump the proxy bid of a stranger just to force the price higher - unless actual bid rigging is taking place. I suspect that is where many of the "item relisted due to non-paying buyer" stuff comes from - the real buyer quit and left the thief with the high bid.

I do not like losing by 1% to a sniper. I do not like paying 100% more than something is worth if I use a really high proxy bid and there is another bidder as almost as foolhardy as me.

Now I use a stopwatch and hope my satellite link does not crash. I do not lose very often.

I meant no offense and hope there are no hard feelings for you and the other snipers.

Regards

Jim
 
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