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24v to 12v and problems!!!

ssgtwright-usmc

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When I bought my M1008 thru a ex- bother in law, he tried to change it from 24v to 12v. He didnt change out the starter which is 24v which finally died.
If you are on a 24v system, now going to use a 12v system, what PARTS should you change out since some parts are reducing that 24 to 12 or giving voltage to the starter!
Has anyone really converted a M1008 to a true 12volt system.
If so, what parts and relays did you change out?
 
From what I understand the only 24V component on a CUCV that is needed to make the truck operational is the starter.

While you would need to change more than the starter as you don’t want to swap out the 24V starter with a 12V one and then run the 12V starter on 24V.

The volt meter on the dash cover part is also 24V but its not actually required to make the truck run.

The link provided worked great for me some 5 years ago when I swapped the electrical system.

I also changed the batteries and battery trays on 3 CUCV's.
 
All 12VDC.

Having a book on the electrical system would be a good investment but you can also find the info in the TM.

I found this several years ago.
/.25ton/TM-9-2320-289-34 CUCV Series Trucks at intermediate direct support and general support level Manual


The huge resistor behind the vacuum pump is what drops the 24V (stock) down to 12V for the glow plugs and other things inside the cab.

The only reason this truck has a 24V starter is so it can get jumped from a M series duece or 5 ton truck with cold dead batteries.

IE the Resistor takes what ever power from the truck that would be jumping it and drops it down to 12 for the glow plugs and the electronics inside the cab.
Correction abput the part in pink I will check the TM to be sure.

ETA: I deleted the drivers side alt and replaced it with a 100A 24V alt to charge a bank of 24V batteries that I use for powering a IR spotlight when I go hunting.

how about lights guages things like that too:roll:
 
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ssgtwright-usmc

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Seems like their is 24v for everything, including that darn relay inside the dash. I mean, for that stater relay under the dash would that not cause poblems if you changed from 24v to 12. This was not my project. I bought the project after all was screwed up big time.
Just seems to me everything needs to be talking the same volts may it be resistors or what not!
 

ssgtwright-usmc

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Im glad to be back here again and alot of things I should know but I am learning again after my accident so I hope everyone wll bear with me some.
 

4bogginchevys

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you may not even need to mess with the relay under the dash, it only allows current thru itself via a switch, batteries wire ++, --, there's not a whole lot more that isn't self explanitory, you'll probably have to locate any and all resistors that are meant to reduce 24-12 volts, that's sounds like it to me.....just trying to help:-D
 

ssgtwright-usmc

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I have changed out starters, relays and ect, now I have a problem with my fuse block under dash.
Two fuses. One for fuel which I think runs off the black out lights and another that has melted the plastic on the fuse block.
That fuse is supposed to go to Main Lights from the detail and pic of the fuse block.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/20600-fag-thread-cucvs-2.html
That diagram of the fuse block does not look anything like mine.
That picture has every slot filled when mine doesnt and mine has like two more rows to add fuses.
 

Crash_AF

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All 12VDC.
The huge resistor behind the vacuum pump is what drops the 24V (stock) down to 12V for the glow plugs and other things inside the cab.

IE the Resistor takes what ever power from the truck that would be jumping it and drops it down to 12 for the glow plugs and the electronics inside the cab.
No, the resistor on the firewall only drops the voltage for the glow plugs. The 12V for the rest of the truck runs off of the front battery only.

All of the lights, gauges, indicators, etc are 12V. The only 24V components in the vehicle are the voltmeter, the starter, and the resistor on the firewall. In a 1009, the radio power buss in the cab beside the rear seat is 24V as well for MilSpec radios. That is all.

To change to 12V, remove the passenger's side alternator, change the starter to 12V, and make a wire to connect the main glow plug wire to the 12V buss above the master cylinder instead of to the glow plug resistor. If you want the voltmeter to work, replace it with a 12V one. Then switch the orientation of the rear battery connection from positive to negative to positive to positive. Instead of only having two connections on the battery interconnection cable, it would be three. It would go from positive front to positive rear to the power block on the firewall. Then ground the rear negative to the negative block on the firewall.

Later,
Joe
 
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Sgt Hulka

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Before doing anything, I urge you to check out the Robeson Equipment Center instructions for the conversion. They're an interagency resource for the US Forest Service and others. I believe it's available in the resources section of this website. If not google it. They're pros and they've already figured it out. I chose their option 3: Retain two alternators, split into two independent systems. One runs the vehicle, the other I use to drive tools and such from a large inverter. I am extremely happy with it. Use Wellman 050 glow plugs and a reduction gear 12v store from any one of several competing sources on ebay. You'll be fine...
 
I took the liberty of correcting your spelling and adding the link.


Before doing anything, I urge you to check out the Roscommon Equipment Center instructions for the conversion.
http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/news_notes/nn10.pdf
They're an interagency resource for the US Forest Service and others. I believe it's available in the resources section of this website. If not google it. They're pros and they've already figured it out. I chose their option 3: Retain two alternators, split into two independent systems. One runs the vehicle, the other I use to drive tools and such from a large inverter. I am extremely happy with it. Use Wellman 050 glow plugs and a reduction gear 12v store from any one of several competing sources on ebay. You'll be fine...
 

ssgtwright-usmc

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Remember, I bought this truck thru a ex-brother in law who screwed up all wiring while converting to 12v. Questions are, 1:should I still use those two big resisters on the fire wall or bypass them. 2:Replace the starter relay to a lesser voltage 3: Anything about the GP relays that should be replaced to be 12v, 4: Anything on the fuss bar that should be re-arranged?
 
If you want to maintain the 24V starter and the two 12V alternators then YES you need the twin resistor pack on the firewall on the other hand if you want to run a 12V starter you can bypass the resistors on the firewall you would be advised to follow the link at roscommon equipment center to make sure you only have 12V to the starter and not 24V.

http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/news_notes/nn10.pdf

AFAIK the relays under the dash ie in the ash tray area are 12V.


Remember, I bought this truck thru a ex-brother in law who screwed up all wiring while converting to 12v. Questions are, 1:should I still use those two big resisters on the fire wall or bypass them. 2:Replace the starter relay to a lesser voltage 3: Anything about the GP relays that should be replaced to be 12v, 4: Anything on the fuss bar that should be re-arranged?
 

Sgt Hulka

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Okay. I'm back and a little more coherent than late, late last night...

Many thanks to Bunkerbuilder for cleaning up my well-intentioned but messy direction...

I was very hesitant to convert my 24V, in part because I prefer the originality, respect the capabilities of 24v starting and partly because of the strongly expressed warnings here on S.S. However, after careful, lengthy consideration and investigation I made the plunge to 12v for the following reasons:

1) Operating conditions: IMHO, the 24v system is optimal if operated and maintained in a fleet of 24v vehicles. However, mine was not going to be in such an environment. I was going to use mine as a construction assistance and recreation vehicle in remote areas (primarily the Central Sierra Nevada Mountains in California). Living in a 12v world complicates even simple things like getting and receiving jumps starts and loaning the vehicle to neophyte users.

2) Leveraging new technology: Technology advancements such as the 12v reduction gear starter motor narrowed the starting advantages of the 24v system and make conversion more attractive. I use two bad-ass WalMart batteries in parallel to drive that starter. I also run Wellman 050 glow plugs which are sensational. At any temperature I've tested so far (down to 30 degrees) the truck starts at the touch of the switch. Sweet!

3) Simplicity = reliability, all things being equal. A 12v conversion gave me the opportunity to simplify my starting and charging system, including actual elimination of the 24v starter relay.

4) Resources: I had enough experience, resources and advice to believe I could do a professional, sanitary and robust conversion that could easily be returned to stock as desired. Remember, technically a good conversion should be a cinch. In fact, it would be a simple matter to leave EVERY 24v component in place save for the starter motor.

5) Operational flexibility: The 12v system offers much, much greater flexibility and options. For example I power auxiliary 12v equipment off the rear passenger compartment terminal blocks. Very handy.

6) Low Risk: As the Roscommon Equipment Center instructions show, the conversion is conceptually simple and low risk. It's important to pay attention to detail, however. Don't scrimp, insist on robust connections and bullet proof grounds.

7) Running dual isolated systems: As detailed in the Roscommon instructions, you have the option of retaining the two alternators and splitting the system into two isolated power sources. In my case, one alternator charges the vehicle power system (two batteries in their original locations in parallel) and the other drives a 3rd deep cycle battery and big inverter to plug in power tools and drive other auxiliary electrics.

8) Redundancy: I love it! The redundancy of retaining the two alternators and running split, isolated systems is a great advantage and comfort when running in remote areas. In case of battery or alternator failure in the vehicle charging and starting system, I have a spare alternator and battery at the ready. The swap is quick and easy. And as I indicated, retaining the two alternators facilitates reconversion if desired.

9) More flexibility and simplicity: The fuse block and every other system is now pure 12v; adding stuff, experimentation and diagnostics are easier.
10) Reliability: I don't like not being able to bench test the GP controller card and I don't have the resources to properly follow the TMs for testing of individual circuits. I dread troubleshooting GP card weirdness (and I've had more than my share)...

From what I've been able to research thus far, the most common reason for failure of the glow plug controller card in the stock system, is an over-voltage condition (over 12v) that blows out a resistor in the circuit. Outside of that, they seem to be pretty robust. Eliminating the 24v thus eliminates the most common reason for GP controller card failure. I also don't have to worry as much about cascading failure of glow plugs. I like minimizing risk.

11) Cost: Converting to 12v costs less than buying a new 24v starter motor.

NOTES: The Roscommon instructions are excellent but vaguely worded in a couple of places. Do what makes sense, take it step by step.

FUTURE:

1) I will swap out the single 24v voltmeter for two twelves shortly.
2) I will move the two vehicle charging and starting system batteries to the single, rear passenger side tray (to make room for cold air intake).

SO, I don't claim to have everything correct or optimal; it's a work in progress. But it is the result of the best research and systematic approach I could take. I welcome any critiques or new ideas! I'm also happy to help out as best I can; there are plenty of details I left out.

cheers!
 

ssgtwright-usmc

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I would love to get the original wires made for this truck, buy a new 24v starter and glowplugs. The wires look like spaghetti, being spliced and wires added.
The way he tried to add a radio into the dash using the volt meter wire is a headache trying to re-attach the wires the way they should have been.
 

ctmustang

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A friend of mine lost his gp cont. card and threw it away. He instead installed a 12v solenoid on the firewall. installed a push button under the dash which is easily reached. Push and hold for 10 seconds and it fires rite up even on the coldest mornings. One less electronic piece to worry about I guess. Maybe this helps somebody someday. :-D
 

Phily

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This thread needs stickied IMO. All the info anyone could need in doing a 24v to 12v conversion.:idea:
 

Stoudty

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I followed those instructions and it went very well. The only thing that I did was not reconnect the ignition switch wires to the 12 volt block to get power to the glow plugs. You may want to check the pulley size of the alternators. I had to replace it with a smaller one b/c it was not spinning fast enough to charge the batteries.
 
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