Aftermarket engine upgrades

[mudguppy]

... I'll build up a mild 12valve (500hp lol)

...then the expensive parts start on the engine mods I have planned....

500hp, expensive? nah - 2 grand is more than enough.

• s300 - $1200 w/ DP
• 435 injectors - $500
• 3k GSK - $120
• bhaf - $60 w/ pre-filter
• 2095 plug (if not 215hp pump) - $25(?)
• 16.5° timing - $0
• 100 plate - $0
• afc tuning - $0

that'll get you there. delivery valves would get you a bit farther for another $250.

ah - but you'll need a clutch: $1k southbend w/ 13" flywheel.

i'm anxious to see how this works out. i'm hoping to do an engine swap later this summer.

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Well mudguppy,

I originally thought of that, but then also thought of the extra hassles I would go through the way you are planning....12volt conversion, power steering, wheels, the bob itself. thats just the start of the list.

I dont think that I am going to use this truck for much more than hunting, I am not a serious offroader...I just need something that'll get me from the house to the stand that I dont have to worry about scratching. 2.5ton rockwells are nice for those who like a 6.xx gear ratio. not for this guy!!!

In spent 3 years in a ford ranger, 5 more in 3 different 1/2tons (2 dodge, 1 chevy) I think for my purposes a 1 ton truck is quite enough!!

I do see the merit in what you are doing, but I do not think it will be any less work...only this will be sheet metal and body work as opposed to mechanical.

You do have me thinking about the front axle a bit, but I seriously dont think it will be an issue. I dont plan on using 53' tires either....MAYBE 44's, but I might even go smaller than that, we'll see.

 

[yeager1]

I have always thought that an intercooler would be the best way to get good, reliable power out of a multi. The engine seems stout enough; many versions are 200-210hp stock (anyone have the torque #'s on a 210hp motor?) which is basically the same motor with different pump setting. The EGT's seem to go up very quickly when the fuel is turned up past the 200hp mark, but if you had cool intake air, your EGT's would stay low and allow more fuel for longer pulls. Air to water intercoolers are fairly cheap, really small because they are more efficient then air to air, and don't need large radiators at all. Spend $600 on an air-water system and you could reliably turn the pump way up, past what would be unreliable without the intercooler. The key to power in any diesel is lots of cool air.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I all you're going to use the truck for is a hunting truck do you really need 500 HP?

 

[jwaller]

I have always thought that an intercooler would be the best way to get good, reliable power out of a multi.

check out my many posts on water injection on my deuce. it works wonders.

 

[m16ty]

i, personally, wouldn't go that route - i'd take the deuce, bob it, and drop in the 12v and tranny. mainly because dodge frames are questionable at best when it comes to taking a beating. the sheet metal itself (from the deuce) is quite heavy already, and you'll spend a lot of time mounting a cab from a straight frame truck to the curved dodge frame. you'll probably want to step the dodge axles up to the 2 1/2 tons anyway, because the unit-bearing dana 60 will be hating life w/ that weight and any larger tires. so by the time you go through all that adapting and fabbing you could've had the motors swapped and been driving!!

i definitely think that's the way to go - mainly because that's what i'm going to do...

you might as well pick up the deuce anyway, they're cheap. besides, you just might like it.

This is what I'd do.

When I heard about putting a deuce body on a civilain frame the first thing I thought of is the pic of the deuce on a GM running gear and can't get that image out of my head. Can't seem to find the pic but ya'll know the one .

 

[crazyplowboy]

This one?

 

[rattlecan6104]

that poor poor deuce, it really needs to be liberated.

 

[bulldawg]

The biggest concern I had with speed in the duce was the guys in green sitting on the troop seats in back while holding loaded M-16's. Rockwells can take mucho horsepower without problems.

 

[rattlecan6104]

Well mudguppy,

I originally thought of that, but then also thought of the extra hassles I would go through the way you are planning....12volt conversion, power steering, wheels, the bob itself. thats just the start of the list.

I dont think that I am going to use this truck for much more than hunting, I am not a serious offroader...I just need something that'll get me from the house to the stand that I dont have to worry about scratching. 2.5ton rockwells are nice for those who like a 6.xx gear ratio. not for this guy!!!

In spent 3 years in a ford ranger, 5 more in 3 different 1/2tons (2 dodge, 1 chevy) I think for my purposes a 1 ton truck is quite enough!!

I do see the merit in what you are doing, but I do not think it will be any less work...only this will be sheet metal and body work as opposed to mechanical.

You do have me thinking about the front axle a bit, but I seriously dont think it will be an issue. I dont plan on using 53' tires either....MAYBE 44's, but I might even go smaller than that, we'll see.

even with 44's you need no less than a dana 80 front axle especially with the power levels you are after. I understand "to each his own" but a couple things to consider that comes up in my mind are:
-that dodge frame under no weight bearing load with those power numbers will crack, and that's a boxed frame, I was just talking to a friend that had this happen to him over the weekend.
-If the trails to your hunting grounds are pretty enclosed you will have more issues with a deuce cab than a standard pickup cab, these things are just big and body damage tends to suck after a little while.
-the deuce in its stock form can get around well enough hunting charlie, so it should do just fine hunting deer. No need to spend thousands of dollars modifying something to do a job that it coulda done just fine before.

Long story short more weight+more power=more breakage. I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see things from every angle.

 

[Chinookpilot77]

I have always thought that an intercooler would be the best way to get good, reliable power out of a multi. The engine seems stout enough; many versions are 200-210hp stock (anyone have the torque #'s on a 210hp motor?) which is basically the same motor with different pump setting. The EGT's seem to go up very quickly when the fuel is turned up past the 200hp mark, but if you had cool intake air, your EGT's would stay low and allow more fuel for longer pulls. Air to water intercoolers are fairly cheap, really small because they are more efficient then air to air, and don't need large radiators at all. Spend $600 on an air-water system and you could reliably turn the pump way up, past what would be unreliable without the intercooler. The key to power in any diesel is lots of cool air.

You make some very valid arguments here...you could then dump the heat via a radiator in the bed. (the heat will eventually have to go somewhere)

 

[Chinookpilot77]

500hp, expensive? nah - 2 grand is more than enough.

• s300 - $1200 w/ DP
• 435 injectors - $500
• 3k GSK - $120
• bhaf - $60 w/ pre-filter
• 2095 plug (if not 215hp pump) - $25(?)
• 16.5° timing - $0
• 100 plate - $0
• afc tuning - $0

I am looking for a donor truck that has all the right stuff 94-98 12valve. Which years had the 215np pump or was it an option?

 

[Chinookpilot77]

When you guys are doing the cummins conversions are you using the donor trucks transfer case or the deuce's? The more I think about this, the more I think I could get a donor engine and put it in a deuce (which I'd prefer, just thought it'd be more headache than the other way around)

 

[frodobaggins]

When you guys are doing the cummins conversions are you using the donor trucks transfer case or the deuce's? The more I think about this, the more I think I could get a donor engine and put it in a deuce (which I'd prefer, just thought it'd be more headache than the other way around)

Good move

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Question: Donor truck transfer case or Deuce TC?

 

[Ferroequinologist]

If I'm not mistaken, you can get a bellhousing to bolt the cummins to the deuce tranny? then just use all stock running gear. Also would make the swap easier.

M-Series Rebuild LLC, CUMMINS DIESEL engine for DODGE M37, M37B1, M43,V41, M56 military trucks, civilian power wagon, B1pw, B3pw, C3series, B3 series.

 

[mudguppy]

...I am looking for a donor truck that has all the right stuff 94-98 12valve. Which years had the 215np pump or was it an option?

'96-'98 w/ manual transmissions had the 215hp rating. however, all of the other p-pumps are quite capable of well over 500hp - a little more tuning is all that's required, plus mack plug and delivery valves.

When you guys are doing the cummins conversions are you using the donor trucks transfer case or the deuce's? ...

my plan is to use a 2wd trans and utilize/modify the existing jack shaft and keep the stock deuce transfer in place.

also, i wouln't use the deuce tranny. yes, an SAE bellhousing is readily available to adapt to the cummins, but you'd never be able to put more than stock power through the transmission because of the clutch. not sure of the ability to use other (higher rated) medium duty clutches w/ that spicer?? or, if the clutch will hold, how much is the tranny rated for - someone said 350 ft/lbs?? i would bet on the tranny lasting long under hi-power levels because i don't think it's been done much.

granted, the nv4500 is supposedly rated for only 460 ft/lbs at 16,000lbs GVW, but it has been proven under very high power levels and parts are readily available.

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Thanks for the help Mud. I am gonna dig into the TM's and read up a bit more about the T-case. I'd love to be able to buy a 4x2 donor truck instead of a 4x4, but I wasn't sure if the T-case would hold up.

I am going automatic tranny all the way...I prefer it for offroad...(not that its better, just what I like)



AHHHH, just thought about something else...where does the winch on these guys get its PTO power from???

 

[mudguppy]

nothing wrong w/ an auto. be advised, though: any auto tranny that came in a light duty pickup will need to be "built" to survive behind a modded diesel. the bad news is the 47rh (hydraulic w/ lockup, '94-'96) and 47re (same, just electronic control, starting in '97?) are notorious for failing at stock hp levels after 100k-150k or so miles.

the good news is that they can be built up to hold anything. bad news is the cost: for 400+hp you are looking at around $3k. for holding anything, over $5k.

i'd love nothing more than to have an auto tranny w/ lockup converter that i'll never have to worry about again - but when considering $5k+ or $1k for a clutch...........

my arm and left leg seem to work pretty good for $4k!!! it'd be nice, tho...

 

[mudguppy]

...AHHHH, just thought about something else...where does the winch on these guys get its PTO power from???

one step ahead of you. go here - they list a single speed reversible pto (not 2-speed like stock, but still...) for the [new venture]4500. not sure about the dodge auto, though. it doesn't seem to list it. i don't think the 47r' have a pto provision.