Anyone running a "Pinion Brake"??

[Towman2277]

I was contemplating running a set of pinion brakes on my 5-ton, and was curious if anyone was using them on theirs? And if so, what master cylinder system were they running, with or without vacuum??

 

[TheBuggyman]

Towman,
We run pinion brakes on our Deuce rock crawler axles with great sucess but we found out three things:

1) We experienced alot of vibration unless one axle was fully locked. (spooled or welded)
We weld the rears and use a Detroit in the front.

2) Pinion brakes are more of an on/off control instead of a modulating control unless you
use low friction circle track pads.

3) Pinion brakes generate an enormous amount of heat even when they are not being
used, remember, the pinion is spinning roughly 6.5 times as fast as the wheel.

Conclusion: I can lock up four 44" Swampers on dry pavement with a manual brake set up and two pinion brakes! P-brakes kick major hind-end off road but i do not think that they would be a good choice for a street driven vehicle. Just an opinion from someone who has them. Hope this helps.

BTW, USA6X6 has very nice P-brake set ups for the Deuce with Wilwood Calipers and low friction pads at a good price. Rotors too. They may be able to get you squared away on a set for the Fiver.

 

[Towman2277]

Thanks for the input. I will be running duece axles under my 1-ton and using 47's for mud play, and plan on using pinion brakes, but after your advice, I will keep the 5-ton brakes stock!! Thanks!

 

[TheBuggyman]

Are you using the 47" LTB? That looks like an awesome tire, when my 44's wear out I think that I may switch. Do you know of anyone who wants a set of 44" TSL's on USA 6X6 double internal beadlocks for Deuce axles?

 

[Towman2277]

I plan on using the 47" LTB's. They are perfect for what i'm planning for. How much you selling your rim/tire combo for? I know many "mud-heads" running duece axles.

 

[TheBuggyman]

Tires are in real good shape leading edge is rounded, lugs almost full height. Tires have not been reversed so the other edge is pretty sharp. I also have a few extra o-rings for the wheels. $1600 firm for all four still mounted. If you sell them for more consider it a commission!

 

[jwaller]

I wonder how hard it would be to keep the stock deuce brakes and add pinion brakes at the same time. this way you improve the crappy stock brakes and more less wear and tear on the pinion setup. wonder if you could get them to all work together and not fight each other.

 

[TheBuggyman]

Might work together but you will still generate all that heat as the pad drags on the rotor.
Probably generate enough to boil the fluid/warp the rotor/ruin the caliper on an extended drive.

 

[cranetruck]

3) Pinion brakes generate an enormous amount of heat even when they are not being
used, remember, the pinion is spinning roughly 6.5 times as fast as the wheel.

I once estimated the power dissipation capacity for each of the service brake drums to be about 12,000 watts. If you try to dublicate that with a single disc, it will get very hot.

 

[TheBuggyman]

3) Pinion brakes generate an enormous amount of heat even when they are not being
used, remember, the pinion is spinning roughly 6.5 times as fast as the wheel.

I once estimated the power dissipation capacity for each of the service brake drums to be about 12,000 watts. If you try to dublicate that with a single disc, it will get very hot.

Yeah, what he said!

 

[cranetruck]

A pinion brake is a driveline brake and will brake the vehicle via the differential. This means that if you are on slippery ground only the wheel with less traction will brake. A side slope will give you braking problems also.

 

[TheBuggyman]

Good point cranetruck! That's one of the reasons that we use them with fully locked axles and the new Deuce air lockers are not really an option for us.

 

[cranetruck]

Same reason an engine brake has to be used with some associated brain activity.

 

[Towman2277]

I knew of the problem with the open diff, but since I had lockers, thats why I thought of it possibly, but due to added heat, and I do drive some distance from point a to b normally, i'll stick to the set-up known to work, the stock setup!

 

[73m819]

what about a air pullback release, no pad to disk contract at release, the pinion brake would be used as a Ebrake only (more for holding at a standstill), no air pressure, it applies, the standard ebrake leaves a lot to be desired, the brake would set eather by dumping the air from a valve on the dash, no air at startup, or a broken air line, the standard 5t ebrake just about holds the truck, let a lone a emergency stop. ive seen a bunch of newer big trucks as well as heavy equipment that use a disk brake setup as the ebrake, some of these you can not power though

 

[TheBuggyman]

73M19,
You pose a very interesting idea, one that I think would benefit Deuce and Five ton owners alike. If you could have one (or two) pinion brake(s) to use as a parking brake AND have the ability to fully retract the caliper pistons to eliminate ANY contact between the pad and the rotor you would have a very strong parking/emergency brake that would actually work!
Let me take this one step further. If you could use the existing parking brake handle and link it to a small bore remote master cylinder the product would be basically invisible to the untrained eye as most pinion brakes can also be mounted on the driveline side too. This would also give another system to brake the truck (and I believe it would stop it!) in the event of a failure in the single line brake system in the trucks now. I do not think that a mechanical system would be powerful enough so it must be hydraulic.
So what about it SS? Can we bring our vast experience and know-how to bear on this subject? Let's start putting out some ideas, rip them apart and put out some more!

Git-R-Done!

 

[cranetruck]

What I stated about driving with a pinion brake, side slopes and slippery pavement, applys to a parked vehicle as well.
If you use the "driveline" parking brake (including the current one) on a side slope it will not keep it from rolling.
When the traction is not equal and the drive shaft locked, the two wheels will still be free to spin in opposite directions.

There may even be a law in some states making a driveline parking brake illegal.....

 

[gimpyrobb]

Forgive my ignorance, isn't the stock ebrake a driveline brake?

 

[jwaller]

Forgive my ignorance, isn't the stock ebrake a driveline brake?

yup! as are most medium duty trucks and 1 tonners from yrs past.


I don't understand why the pinion brake setup you have drags so much and creates heat when your not using it. is it somehow different from a normal disc brake? I know disc brakes do drag some when not in use but it's not an issue bc everything produced today has them.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I would think that pinion brakes would be twice as good then? So are we trying to figure out a rear dual brake circuit, like on a 2500 pickup?