Apportioned Tag in Tenn

[davidkroberts]

Quick question, I havent had to buy an apportioned tag in forever and here is my issue. I was wanting to use my old M931 for a pickup vehicle to get my own crap from GL sites in Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, and Arkansas. So i was wanting 6 states for a total weight of around 45000 lbs total since i would be flat towing vehicles and empty trailers not moving freight.

So my question is what are they running for a Tag/ IFTA sticker these days and all the other federal crap. Is it even worth it for the increased insurance cost associated with it?

 

[m16ty]

I don't know what the cost would be for that weight tag and those states. You will also have to sign up for IFTA, KYU number, and a USDOT number. KY will nail you for not having a KYU number. You'll also have to pay the federal hwy use tax (form 2290) if you put more than 5,000 miles a year on your truck (if less than 5K miles you don't pay but you still have to file).

I have three apportioned civilian trucks for TN, KY, and AL. I can tell you that it's a bunch of paperwork to keep up with also. How often do you travel out of state? If you only go into any given state only one or two times a year, I'd think it would be cheaper and easier just to get temporary authority. Actually, it may even be cheaper just to hire your stuff hauled if you aren't hauling much.

You can go to the TDOT website and find out what kind of cost you're looking at.

 

[Ruppster]

Quick question, I havent had to buy an apportioned tag in forever and here is my issue. I was wanting to use my old M931 for a pickup vehicle to get my own crap from GL sites in Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, and Arkansas. So i was wanting 6 states for a total weight of around 45000 lbs total since i would be flat towing vehicles and empty trailers not moving freight.

So my question is what are they running for a Tag/ IFTA sticker these days and all the other federal crap. Is it even worth it for the increased insurance cost associated with it?

Unless you plan to make a lot of trips per year you would probably be better off just using IRP/IFTA trip permits. You will need to total up the cost of permits versus the total cost of apportioned plates to see which one works best for you. Plus check with each state to see whether you need permits in the first place or not. Some states let you get away without buying an IFTA permit if you buy fuel in their state. I've driven cross country several times with antique semi trucks and only about half the states I drove through required the trip permits as l was hauling my own stuff and not for hire.

You'll also have to pay the federal hwy use tax (form 2290) if you put more than 5,000 miles a year on your truck (if less than 5K miles you don't pay but you still have to file).

That's only if he gets tags for 55,000 pounds or more (whether they're apportioned or not). If he keeps his tags below 55,000 then he will not need to worry about the heavy use tax. As far as a USDOT number you only need that if you in commerce. If you are hauling your own stuff the USDOT doesn't care. That's unless your state requires it for the apportioned plates or IFTA sticker. Years ago I had Virginia DMV tell me I needed a DOT number in order to get an IFTA sticker but I fought it and they ended up giving me the IFTA sticker after they read the regs and realized a DOT number was not required. So if the local DMV office says you need the DOT number for apportioned plates or IFTA I would check with the main IRP/IFTA office of the state to make sure they are correct before wasting time getting a USDOT number. I've never had any problems about lack of a DOT number on any of my cross country trips and I was crossing the scales at 44,000 pounds. Had med card and inspection related issues but never had a scale official give me any problems about not having a DOT number.

 

[m16ty]

In TN, when you buy apportioned tags you are considered commercial. I'm 99% sure you have to have a USDOT number if you run apportioned tags. They ask for your USDOT number when you apply for apportioned tags (IRP application). These days all the different agencies (TDOT, USDOT, IFTA, IRS) are tied together through computers and you can't hardly get by getting tags without the other agencies knowing about it and wanting their part.

Ruppster, you're right. I went back and re-read his post and noticed his gross weight. No need for form 2290 if under 55k lbs.

I can give a little more info when I get back in the office on Monday. I got 3 sets of apportioned tags a couple of months ago but I don't recall all the details.

 

[davidkroberts]

that would be awesome, I dont want to pay more than i need to but usually I buy from places that let me drive off the lot. Im getting more and more of the 900 series than anything else and flat towing them long distance is a pain so i avoid it if possible. If I break down it would be awesome to have a way to get my own truck back to the house without too much trouble.

If its too much expense for the tag ill probably just keep my antique tag on it. The use of the truck isnt essential but it would be nice to have the option especially since I was wanting to get a trailer and make a camper out of one....

 

[Ruppster]

In TN, when you buy apportioned tags you are considered commercial. I'm 99% sure you have to have a USDOT number if you run apportioned tags. They ask for your USDOT number when you apply for apportioned tags (IRP application).

The trick is that while there is a spot for a DOT # on the form that does not mean you need it in order to get them. When I got the IFTA sticker in VA they first said I had to write down a DOT number on the form. I told them that while IFTA was required whether you were in commerce or not you only needed the DOT number if you were actually in commerce. Then I pointed out that if they were to tell me that a DOT number was a requirement to get an IFTA decal then that meant IFTA was also only a requirement if I was in commerce and not needed if I was hauling my own stuff. I told them they couldn't have it both ways. This caused them to take the time to read back through their regs and when they did they found out they could issue IFTA without a DOT number. I'm not saying this will work 100% with IRP but it wouldn't hurt to ask since IRP is based on weight (just like IFTA) and does not care whether you're in commerce or not. I was just tossing it out there as something the OP may want to look in to if he does go for apportioned plates since you brought up the DOT number issue.

The use of the truck isnt essential but it would be nice to have the option especially since I was wanting to get a trailer and make a camper out of one....

If you tow an RV trailer with the truck it is considered an RV combo. At that point IRP and IFTA become a moot point as RV's are exempt. One way to do it is to take a flat bed or drop deck trailer and convert the front part of the trailer in to sleeping quarters (make sure to re-class the registration of the trailer as an RV after you do this). Then you leave the back half alone so you can haul a truck on to it. The catch with this method is that while the combo is considered an RV (as long as the trailer is registered as an RV) as soon as you drop the trailer the truck returns right back in to the land of commercial vehicles. Plus RV's are limited to an overall length of 65 feet (so watch out how long of a trailer you get).

 

[m16ty]

IRP is based on weight (just like IFTA) and does not care whether you're in commerce or not.

IFTA is based on mileage and gallons of fuel used, not weight.

In TN, IFTA isn't required if you are not commercial. If you have apportioned tags you are considered commercial though.

I run commercial trucks so there may be some loopholes that I don't know about when you aren't hauling in commerce. If you are buying and selling these trucks it could be considered commerce though.

 

[Ruppster]

IFTA is based on mileage and gallons of fuel used, not weight.

I was talking about the requirements for it, not the form used to file the quarterly claim. If you are not for commerce then what they go by when determining whether you need it or not is the weight rating of the truck (as in GVWR). If you are driving a truck with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more (or with tandem rear axles regardless of GVWR) and crossing state lines (i.e. driving outside the vehicle's state of registration) then many states say you have to have IFTA (either a decal or trip permits) and IRP when driving in a state other then the state the truck is registered in. Not all states require it though if you are hauling your own toys and not for hire. Anyhow, my comment was about IFTA requirements for personal use vehicles. And for that they go by weight, not fuel usage.

In TN, IFTA isn't required if you are not commercial.

The trick part is if he gets tagged in TN then TN won't care if he has apportioned plates/IRP or IFTA or not. It's only when he drives in to a neighboring state outside of TN that the possible need for apportioned plates and IFTA kicks in. It's the surrounding states that might ticket him for not having it, not TN as the truck is registered there. For driving in TN he won't need either. What adds to the confusion is most states make all heavy trucks over 10,000 pounds get commercial tags, whether you're commercial or not. Just because a truck has commercial plates does not mean all other commercial rules apply if it is for personal use. The original poster needs to check with TN to see if there are any exemptions from some of the commercial requirements if the truck is for personal use as TN may only require a DOT number on the IRP form if the truck is truly used for commercial purposes. But it is possible for a state to require a DOT number anyhow, even if he's not in commerce. That's why I keep saying he needs to call and ask the powers that be in TN.

I run commercial trucks so there may be some loopholes that I don't know about when you aren't hauling in commerce. If you are buying and selling these trucks it could be considered commerce though.

The way I read the initial post was that he would be picking up stuff for his own collection/use and have based my responses on that interpretation. If he is not for hire then he fits in to a gray area where some of the commercial stuff applies but not all of it. And the best way for him to find out is to call the state and get the regulation number that applies to commercial vehicles and read the regs directly. Internet forums are not the best place to get legal advice, especially when it's your backside in the hot seat should the info be wrong.

Anyhow, if I am wrong in regards to the original post and that he plans on selling the stuff he gets in operation of a business then what you said is correct about needing IRP and DOT numbers. My comments only apply to personal, not for hire use of big trucks.

 

[m16ty]

Best thing to do is fill out the IRP application and send it in. They will inform you if you have all that is required or not.

I do know they (TN) wouldn't issue me apportioned tags without fist having a IFTA sticker. IFTA really doesn't cost anything, it's just more paperwork to deal with. It actually simplifies the process if you regularly travel out of state. Another thing is if you don't travel out of state for three consecutive quarters they will pull your IFTA.

I've never heard of non-commercial apportioned plates. I'm not saying they don't exist, I've just never heard of them. I just figured when you apply for apportioned tags, they consider you commercial.