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Auto Start for MEP-003a

Carl_in_NH

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I suspect that it's not going to be completly straight forward to use one of these controllers on the MEP diesel set - because they were not intended to control a unit with the rather unique feature set of an MEP control box.

Now, don't get me wrong - you can make anything work with enough effort - but I don't suspect one of these is going to be a simple bolt-up and go solution for an MEP. If it were me, I'd just roll my own with a PLC.

You need to think about;

pre-heaters
maintaining engine in cranking mode once started until oil pressure builds
ability to auto-flash the field if needed

and that's just for starters. Now, you could simplify that by gutting the MEP control box and doing a custom job to work with a standard controller - but wouldn't maintaining the MEP control box the way it is and making a PLC controller that could be adapted to the quirks of the MEP control box be a simpler solution?
 

rat4spd

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If you have no way to regulate voltage or frequency automatically, auto start would be of limited value if you still have to set those..
 

panic_button

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What I am looking to do is to use the $1000 auto transfer switch that I go for $99 at Lowes and automatically start the generator. If the worst situation happens and I'm stuck put of town, I can rely on the MEP auto starting for my family and not have to worry.
 

glcaines

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It is not that complicated to start the MEP-003A. I would recommend installing a manual transfer switch and training the wife, et al, how to throw the switch and start the engine. My wife picked it up without difficulty.
 

panic_button

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It wouldn't be a problem for my wife, she's an ex A.G.E. mechanic and worked on these in the AF. My daughter is handicaped and if she's home alone when the power goes out I doubt she could handle starting it.
 

glcaines

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It wouldn't be a problem for my wife, she's an ex A.G.E. mechanic and worked on these in the AF. My daughter is handicaped and if she's home alone when the power goes out I doubt she could handle starting it.
What about a neighbor? You may be like me with no neighbors close by.
 

Nonotagain

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Setting the frequency and voltage on the 003 is easy, as you can leave the controls set from the last time that the unit ran. The throttle cable only sets position of the injector pump unlike a carbureted engine.

You need a couple of process timers with solenoids, one to start the pre-heat cycle and a second to perform a start/run/hold on run for 30-45 seconds to make sure that the oil pressure is up to the minimum required and then holding the start in order to flash the field.
 

Isaac-1

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Ok, I don't have a MEP-002 or MEP-003 so don't feel qualified to offer advice on their quirks. I can say that my MEP-701a is well within the accepted 58-62 hz tolerance range for home standby generators when it comes to setting the throttle position and forgetting it, with about a 1 hz typical load swing, plus about +/-1 hz hot or cold. As to the cheap "automatic" transfer switches typically bundled with Generac Guardian home standby generators there is a reason they are cheap, namely they are braindead and are not real automatic switches, instead the computer in the generator control board controls their operation. So without a compatible Generac brand generator they are nothing but a paperweight (basically a switch with a servo mechanism).

Other problems that I see is the fact these J series Onan diesel engines (like in the MEP-002 and MEP-003) are notorious for being hard to start in cold/cool weather, and require a lot of time with the glow plugs/heaters on. Given your north Florida location you could probably get around that with the addition of a magnetic oil pan heater that could be ran in the cooler months (I am not sure if it is worth it though, as this would likely consume $20+ of electricity per month).

Having said all this, if it were me and if this is something that had to work, I would remove the entire original control system and install something like a Flight Systems #540 controller (if you call and explain your situation they will often work with you on pricing, give you dealer pricing, etc) As to the need for possibly reflash the field, I think Power Tronics makes an automatic field flasher AFM-500X module that might be able to be wired in with the existing voltage regulator, even though it is designed to work with their house branded AVR's.

Ike

p.s. it really is not that hard to start a generator and flip a manual transfer switch, if someone can start a car and put it in gear, they can start one of these MEP generators and flip a manual transfer switch. If your decide to look at a whole house manual transfer switch that does not cost too much money, I suggest looking at the Ronk brand units, they are reasonably priced, come in an aluminum NEMA 3R housing , and my 70+ year old mother can easily flip the spring loaded lever on their 400 amp box. Due to the relatively complexity of starting a MEP generator I opted for a surplus commercial Kohler unit for my mother's house after my step father died a couple of years ago (their old generator was a 6500 watt pull start Honda) , now to start it all she has to do is flip a light switch style remote start switch, give it a few seconds to crank and warm up, then flip the transfer switch.
 

Speddmon

Blind squirrel rehabiltator
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Isaac,

That's all good advice with one exception, and since you don't have an MEP It's perfectly understandable that you are not familiar with it (I wasn't at first either). The MEP-002 and 003 both have aluminum oil pans, so the magnetic oil pan heater won't do much good :lol:

Other than that I have to agree with much of what Isaac said. My MEP's both are very stable when it comes to frequency control whether loaded or not. And they both stay pretty much right at 60 HZ hot or cold. If you have one that is drifting, I suggest investigating the throttle control cable and you may find something is loose in the adjustment end, allowing the drift.
 

panic_button

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After all this I think I'll bypass the auto start. I am trying to work out the details on wiring the ATS to work with the MAP. I'm not worried about the auto start feature, just the switching over when the power goes out. It looks fairly simple, I just have to switch out the 12v relay for a 24v one, figure out where I can tap into 24v when the MEP is running, run a 3-14g wires for the load for the solenoid and I should be good.
 

Carl_in_NH

Member
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Location
Wilton NH
run a 3-14g wires for the load
14 Ga is a wee bit on the small side; I suggest something like a short flexible umbilical of water and oil proof cable 4 Ga. – 3 conductor to the plug and connector that feed into the transfer switch. For these short runs, think as heavy as you can make them and still be practical – because undersized conductors results in voltage drop that only heats the wiring and costs you fuel and load capacity. Don’t cut corners on the interconnect.

Also make certain the weatherproof connectors you purchase can handle the load without excessive drop and heating; 50 and 70 Amp connector sets are expensive – but you only have to buy them once.
 

panic_button

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14 Ga is a wee bit on the small side; I suggest something like a short flexible umbilical of water and oil proof cable 4 Ga. – 3 conductor to the plug and connector that feed into the transfer switch. For these short runs, think as heavy as you can make them and still be practical – because undersized conductors results in voltage drop that only heats the wiring and costs you fuel and load capacity. Don’t cut corners on the interconnect.

Also make certain the weatherproof connectors you purchase can handle the load without excessive drop and heating; 50 and 70 Amp connector sets are expensive – but you only have to buy them once.
The 14ga wire 240v wire is just for the sensor for the ATS and to operate the solenoid, the actual power feed for the house from the generator will be what ever code and the electrician call for.
 

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Carl_in_NH

Member
834
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Location
Wilton NH
Understood; wires for the load, and wires for sensing the generator output are indeed quite differnet things. Use of the word 'load' without mention of sensing threw me off.
 

glcaines

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The 14ga wire 240v wire is just for the sensor for the ATS and to operate the solenoid, the actual power feed for the house from the generator will be what ever code and the electrician call for.
I have a brand new 25' reel of 2/0 4-conductor SO cable manufactured by Alpha for sale. If interested, send me a PM.
 
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