California Title Registration Diesel Smog Law and GL loadout info for M35 Deuce 5 Ton

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NovacaineFix

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I just had a pleasant encounter with LA County Sheriffs who arrested me. Apparently, I'm not allowed to park my 5 ton with Historical Plates on the street, nor am I allowed to drive it. (from what parking enforcement says) She couldn't show me the code that states the vehicle MUST only be parked on private property.
I refused to open the rig for the tow truck, I told them to tow the truck how it sits and I get arrested for interfering lol.
From my understanding at the DMV, weight restrictions don't apply to historical registered vehicles. What about parking? I couldn't find anything in the vehicle code.

Sorry to hear about your encounter. Now they may be interpreting your 5-ton as a commercial vehicle and if it is parked in a residential area, that could be illegal. Some HOA's have rules like this and some are actually code enforced aka you can get a ticket for it.

Here in San Diego, it is under San Diego Municipal Code 86.0149,
Screen Shot 2016-10-26 at 1.54.28 AM.png
not sure what it would be in Whittier or whatever the jurisdiction is for where your truck was parked.

As for them arresting you, I guess if you did interfere, then they would see that as obstruction. I can understand your frustration, but if they are going to tow it, I would probably do the same thing.

As for not being allowed to drive it, not true, unless they meant after they were going to tow it, meaning that you could not drive it away and they were going to tow it for the violation, I guess.

Good luck man and keep us updated, hope the tow/impound bill is not too bad. More details if you don't mind.
 

CoreyKiefer

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It's not commercial, its historical. I haven't found any restrictions on historical. Weight-related issues are negated.

I understand, but cars are towed without the need for keys 24/7. He didn't need mine one bit.


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nf6x

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It's historical for registration purposes, but it's class B commercial for driver's licensing purposes. California vehicle code exempts historical vehicles from weight fees and the new diesel engine emissions control requirements. But the code pertaining to historical vehicles does not address licensing at all. The licensing code defines a truck such as the M35 as requiring a minimum class B commercial driver's license based solely on its weight and axle count, regardless of intended use of the vehicle, and regardless of how it is registered. It may be arguable whether it also requires an air brake endorsement; I don't know if there is any case law clarifying whether an air brake endorsement is needed for an air-over-hydraulic system, which has most of the complexity and pre-trip inspection requirements of an air brake system despite being hydraulic at the end.

Don't get hung up on the dictionary definition of the word "commercial". Read the California Vehicle Code. The required license class for any given vehicle is clearly defined. If in doubt, call up the CHP's commercial enforcement division for clarification. I read the CVC myself and concluded that a class A or B commercial driver's license is required by CA law to drive one, whether it's registered as a historical vehicle or not. Then I called up CHP and asked about licensing requirements, and the officer I spoke with confirmed that at least a class B commercial license is necessary, citing the CVC sections requiring that.

Disclaimer: I went through all of this around the year 2000, and I don't have the CVC section numbers handy to cite any more. Also, I don't know whether there are any state or local ordinances covering where you can park your truck; I am only familiar with registration and licensing of them.
 

Styk33

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The law for an air brake endorsement came in around 2010, but I do not have my code book in front of me. It addressed air over hydraulic braking specifically.

Parking enforcement is a county/city agency and those are the codes they are most likely towing you for, not the state issued vehicle code (which is typically less stringent than a city/county code). In my county they define a commercial vehicle, and a deuce (or a 5 or 7 ton) do not fit into that definition, so if I park in my own county (and not a few cities within the county) I am legal (with most older 1 tons not being legal to park in residential areas). Like nf6x stated, the registration doesn't necessarily allow or disallow certain maneuvers to be done (as in parking).
 

nf6x

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Does the new law require an air brake endorsement for air over hydraulic? I went ahead and got the endorsement to be safe, and now I have a couple of 5 tons with real air brakes anyway. I decided to get a class A, since it didn't seem like it would be that much more trouble than a class B since I opted to go to a truck driving school anyway.
 

Chief_919

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I just had a pleasant encounter with LA County Sheriffs who arrested me. Apparently, I'm not allowed to park my 5 ton with Historical Plates on the street, nor am I allowed to drive it. (from what parking enforcement says) She couldn't show me the code that states the vehicle MUST only be parked on private property.
I refused to open the rig for the tow truck, I told them to tow the truck how it sits and I get arrested for interfering lol.
From my understanding at the DMV, weight restrictions don't apply to historical registered vehicles. What about parking? I couldn't find anything in the vehicle code.








Your location says Whittier CA, a quick look at the municipal code there says you can't park a commercial vehicle on any street.

See it here: https://www.municode.com/library/ca/whittier/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT10VETR_CH10.40COVE section 10.40.020

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]It says they define "commercial vehicle" the same as the state does. The state of CA defines a "motor truck", a form of commercial vehicle as "A motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property." and makes no exemption for having it registered historical in the definition.

Link here:
[/FONT]https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch13/ch13_1

If you are in the city of Whittier it looks like, by the letter of the law, not only can you not park your vehicle in the street you can't park it on your own property in a residential district if the GVWR is over 14,000 pounds.
 

True Knight

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Your location says Whittier CA, a quick look at the municipal code there says you can't park a commercial vehicle on any street.

See it here: https://www.municode.com/library/ca/whittier/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT10VETR_CH10.40COVE section 10.40.020

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]It says they define "commercial vehicle" the same as the state does. The state of CA defines a "motor truck", a form of commercial vehicle as "A motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property." and makes no exemption for having it registered historical in the definition.

Link here:
[/FONT]https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch13/ch13_1

If you are in the city of Whittier it looks like, by the letter of the law, not only can you not park your vehicle in the street you can't park it on your own property in a residential district if the GVWR is over 14,000 pounds.
There must be some form of exceptions for that, because per the state of California, every pick up truck is considered a commercial vehicle.

Another question for the OP, do they allow RVs to be parked on the street? If so is it a matter of vehicle size? Maybe they decided your 5-ton was too large. What was the actual code that it was towed for?


(Correction: I just read the municipal code again, looks like as long as a pickup is under 10k pounds gross it's exempt)
 
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Styk33

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The Whittier code states unladen weight of 14,000lbs or greater is considered commercial (Ordinance 318 Section 10.40.020 D). It does also reference the CA vehicle code for commercial vehicles, so if you are over 14,000lbs, you need to meet the definition of the pickup.

CVC §260.a. Definition Commercial Vehicle
A “commercial vehicle” is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

CVC §471. Definition Pickup Truck
A “pickup truck” is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length.  “Pickup truck” does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a “utility body.”

CCR §150.04. Pickup Trucks.

(a) Pursuant to Section 471 of the Vehicle Code, any motor vehicle, except a motorcycle, motorized bicycle, or motorized quadricycle, with an open box type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length is by definition a pickup. Examples of this type of motor vehicle include the Ford Explorer Sport Trac, Nissan Frontier and other similarly designed vehicles.
(b) Pursuant to Section 471 of the Vehicle Code, any motor vehicle, except a motorcycle, motorized bicycle, or motorized quadricycle, that may be configured or reconfigured to provide an open box type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length is by definition a pickup. Examples of this type of motor vehicle include the Chevrolet Avalanche and similarly designed vehicles.



What is this vehicle designed for?
Is it designed for the transportation of property? Yes, then it is a commercial vehicle and cannot be parked in the residential areas of Whittier, unless the bed is less than 9' or the unladen weight is less than 14,000lbs.

CVC 471 Is a section I reference often as I see come up often when people remove their bed and put a flat bed or utility bed on their truck (1/2-3/4-1 ton pickups). I work for a construction company and we have to have DOT stickers (due to our utility beds) and stop at scales because we do not have a pickup bed on the truck and that changes the classification to a commercial truck. GVWR is 15,0000lbs for the trucks.


During my searches for the vehicle codes, I came across this tidbit of information, which I found quite interesting:

24008.5. (a) No person shall operate any motor vehicle with a frame height or body floor height greater than specified in subdivisions (b) and (c). (b) The maximum frame height is as follows: Vehicle Type Frame Height
(1) Passenger vehicles, except housecars ...........................23 inches
(2) All other motor vehicles, including housecars, as follows:
Up to 4,500 pounds GVWR ............. 27 inches
4,501 to 7,500 pounds GVWR .......... 30 inches
7,501 to 10,000 pounds GVWR ......... 31 inches
(c) The lowest portion of the body floor shall not be more than five inches above the top of the frame.
(d) The following definitions govern the construction of this section:
(1) "Frame" means the main longitudinal structural members of the chassis of the vehicle or, for vehicles with unitized body construction, the lowest main longitudinal structural members of the body of the vehicle.
(2) "Frame height" means the vertical distance between the ground and the lowest point on the frame, measured when the vehicle is unladen on a level surface at the lowest point on the frame midway between the front axle and the second axle on the vehicle.
 

Styk33

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Does the new law require an air brake endorsement for air over hydraulic? I went ahead and got the endorsement to be safe, and now I have a couple of 5 tons with real air brakes anyway. I decided to get a class A, since it didn't seem like it would be that much more trouble than a class B since I opted to go to a truck driving school anyway.
If you have a 5 ton then your GVWR is over 26,000lbs, so it puts you into the CDL requirements. If your truck doesn't require a CDL (under 26,000lbs, and let's not discuss the axle count), then you do not need to take the air brake test and not have an air brake restriction, as if you drive a vehicle that only requires a class C license, you can drive a vehicle with full (or partial) air brakes.

I believe the codes changed in 2003, but it might have been in 2008.

CVC 1526c For the purposes of the driving-skill test and the restriction described in this section, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air-brake principle.
 

True Knight

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The codes you listed are all accurate, however the state still does whatever it wants. Hence all pickup trucks regardless of weight are considered commercial for registration so the state can charge the weight fee.

I just went through the application for historic plates for my CUCV, and the title had to be surrendered so that the dmv change the registration to "auto".

So per registration, any historic vehicle is not technically considered a commercial vehicle. Now for parking and such issues, each city/ county can make their own rules as what can be parked and where.
 

CoreyKiefer

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The codes you listed are all accurate, however the state still does whatever it wants. Hence all pickup trucks regardless of weight are considered commercial for registration so the state can charge the weight fee.

I just went through the application for historic plates for my CUCV, and the title had to be surrendered so that the dmv change the registration to "auto".

So per registration, any historic vehicle is not technically considered a commercial vehicle. Now for parking and such issues, each city/ county can make their own rules as what can be parked and where.
I apologize. I am in unincorporated Whittier.

The reasoning the sheriffs used are ridiculous. They refer to DMV rules without any code or references.


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Styk33

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The codes you listed are all accurate, however the state still does whatever it wants. Hence all pickup trucks regardless of weight are considered commercial for registration so the state can charge the weight fee.

I just went through the application for historic plates for my CUCV, and the title had to be surrendered so that the dmv change the registration to "auto".

So per registration, any historic vehicle is not technically considered a commercial vehicle. Now for parking and such issues, each city/ county can make their own rules as what can be parked and where.
That is a policy within DMV, which does not apply to parking enforcement or county ordinances, unless they call out items distributed by DMV (as in license plates or registration). DMV can say/state anything they want, they are just an agency of the state, but they do not issue nor enforce the codes. If an ordinance references the CVC for a definition, then that is what the AHJ/LEO will go by when writing a citation. Some blurb in the DMV handbook doesn't apply, as you can only issue tickets based on ordinance or CVC, not some random publication. The registration says it is an automobile (if it is historic), so that might be something worth looking into.

Not being in the incorporated area of Whittier makes a big difference, as the laws can be different.
 

quickfarms

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The historic plates exempt you from the weight fees because the vehicle is not being used commercially.

La county ordinances 15.64.052 and 15.64.055 state that you can't park a vehicle over 10,000 on a residential street.

The vehicle code states you are not permitted to drive a three axle vehicle with a gvw over 6,000 lbs with a class c drivers license.
 
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