Cat 3116 LMTV - Synthetic Oil

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Awesomlmtv

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Is there a suitable synthetic oil for the Cat 3116 with a straight weight to avoid aftercooler issues?

I have had really great success with using synthetic oils in high heat environments, extreme conditions. Notably: 406k heavy trailer miles on one Duramax 6.6 with no issues, stock internals. These were not flat lands towing miles, these machines made the trip from LA - Las Vegas, pulling max gross weight over the mountain pass in July (118° ambient temperatures.) Impressive performance that my mechanic attributes to routine oil changes (4k miles) and full synthetic Rotella T6.

Caterpillar, as you know has special straight weight oils specifically for the 3116 / 3126 engines.

I am hesitant to use Dino oil in this machine in extreme conditions.

Is there an aftercooler or crankcase ventilation system delete that would eliminate the expensive clogging issues and allow us to run full synthetic 15w40?

What oil do you run, and have you had expensive aftercooler issues?
 

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simp5782

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I only know of Lucas that makes a synthetic 15/40. Most use a straight 30 weight.

I always hear more rattling going on in engines with synthetic oil.

Stick to 15w40. Basic oil will keep the 3116 engine properly lubricated in any conditions you could ever put it thru. Change every 10k or add a bypass system for longer change intervals. Puradyn bypass systems will allow 50,000mi between oil changes.

Send your oil for lab tests before changing it. Even a standard package oil has a long life.
 

Awesomlmtv

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These vehicles stood up to the harsh environments in recent desert theaters, and I had planned on changing oil much more often than 10k. Thinking 5k miles or 3 months, especially with dino oils which break down over time when exposed to carbon / soot.

I am planning on doing the 290hp upgrade (A0), and wonder if that would require better lubrication.
 

simp5782

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These vehicles stood up to the harsh environments in recent desert theaters, and I had planned on changing oil much more often than 10k. Thinking 5k miles or 3 months, especially with dino oils which break down over time when exposed to carbon / soot.

I am planning on doing the 290hp upgrade (A0), and wonder if that would require better lubrication.
You must be an engineer or want to be engineer. You are over thinking this. So I guess I should change my oil in a semi truck running to the west coast and then back. Pfft please. Waste of money. Oil has come along way from the change every 3k mark.

Add a puradyn bypass system if you are that worried about break down and additive packages. The bypass filters actually put additives back into the oil. I have been nearly 32000mi since my last oil change with the bypass system. Replacing the primary spin on every 10,000mi
 

Awesomlmtv

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Simp, you nailed it: Aerospace Engineer, not used to compromise. 32k is a long time, and I am likely overthinking this.
 
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Kbarnes0

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That's a lot of oil changes for an engine with such a large capacity. Maybe the first two changes in a 3-5k interval to draw out as much contaminates as possible. Then you would be about as fresh, other than rebuild. I've had engines with synthetic that our louder. If I'm running synthetic in an engine that calls for non synthetic, I usually do that change after the break in oil, then that engine sees synthetic for the rest of the time I own it.

The dirtymax is a different class of engine. I suppose if you were going to be putting 20k+ miles a year on the Lmtv and towing/large constant stress then it may be worth exploring what oil will maximize for longterm use.

Synthetic, without maximizing the longevity gets pretty expensive.

Everyone has their preference on oils. I personally run 15-40 with a gallon of Lucas.

Following to see others experience.
 

simp5782

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This is a bypass simulation to show what is done.

I can't find the puradyn video I saw years ago. The puradyn system was used on MRAPs and came as a kit for the cougars and JerrV units. The puradyn system is a 2 to 3gph filter system at less than 1 micron

 

Awesomeness

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Simp, you nailed it: Aerospace Engineer, not used to compromise. 32k is a long time, and I am likely overthinking this.
That's why these engines have several fold the capacity of a similarly sized consumer engine. The added abuse is factored into the added volume.

The one thing I've never found a good study/explanation of is how long oil can survive, while mileage is low. Most of us owners are more likely to have a couple years since the last oil change and still not have reached the several thousand miles necessary to require the next oil change. I've spent a lot of time trying to research this, and have found all sorts of unsupported suggestions (e.g. "change oil every 3000 miles OR EVERY 3 MONTHS", etc.), but never scientifically-based explanation. Even after a few years, and a few thousand miles, Blackstone Labs tells me it's fine.
 

Kbarnes0

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That's why these engines have several fold the capacity of a similarly sized consumer engine. The added abuse is factored into the added volume.

The one thing I've never found a good study/explanation of is how long oil can survive, while mileage is low. Most of us owners are more likely to have a couple years since the last oil change and still not have reached the several thousand miles necessary to require the next oil change. I've spent a lot of time trying to research this, and have found all sorts of unsupported suggestions (e.g. "change oil every 3000 miles OR EVERY 3 MONTHS", etc.), but never scientifically-based explanation. Even after a few years, and a few thousand miles, Blackstone Labs tells me it's fine.
I feel you there. My M1090 sat for 5 years. Only had 50 miles since the service on fuel and oil since I got it at auction. I changed it out due to the investment in the truck. But have had cars that have sat for 20 yrs and ran the oil. It looked good, ran fine.
 

Reworked LMTV

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Synthetic should be your choice if your vehicle gets started and stopped a lot with little drive time. It is typically more stable to oxidation, etc.
I use Blackstone.
 

Awesomeness

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Synthetic should be your choice if your vehicle gets started and stopped a lot with little drive time. It is typically more stable to oxidation, etc.
I use Blackstone.
If you're only putting 1000 miles on it a year, a good argument can be made for using conventional oil, since the premium cost of synthetic would be wasted if you're just changing what is essentially clean oil simply because of age.
 

Reworked LMTV

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If you're only putting 1000 miles on it a year, a good argument can be made for using conventional oil, since the premium cost of synthetic would be wasted if you're just changing what is essentially clean oil simply because of age.
I see what you are saying. I suppose it depends on the type of use. It could be argued either way. What I am saying is this. If you don't drive the vehicle enough to get it fully heated up each time (these are notorious slow to heat up), say short test drives, then synthetic is better. If you are driving to full operating temperature typically, but log few miles, then dino oil. The real test is Blackstone. Send them a sample and see if it is still good.
 

Awesomeness

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I see what you are saying. I suppose it depends on the type of use. It could be argued either way. What I am saying is this. If you don't drive the vehicle enough to get it fully heated up each time (these are notorious slow to heat up), say short test drives, then synthetic is better. If you are driving to full operating temperature typically, but log few miles, then dino oil. The real test is Blackstone. Send them a sample and see if it is still good.
Synthetic oil isn't going to help with the situation that I think you're alluding to. The chief danger with not getting to operating temperature is that water condensed into the oil does not get a chance to boil off, and then you're recirculating that water through the engine causing corrosive damage over time. You'll have that issue with conventional or synthetic oil.
 

simp5782

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Why i like the puradyn system it is equipped with a diffuser plate that is heated 12 or 24v and evaporates fuel or water in the oil as it goes thru it
 

AllenF

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Ok I will jump in here. ( If you don't want to read my supportive thoughts, skip down to the last paragraph) ;)

Synthetic oil is far better than dyno oil. It can work in colder and higher temps so the need for seasonal changes is no longer needed. Synthetic oil also has a higher additive package so it can tolerate longer change intervals. But to be sure as to how much longer, one MUST oil sample and test. Our LMTV's are set up to do this as the engine and transmission have a sample valve built in on the passenger side of the engine near the oil filter.

Now for a light discussion about the oil additives that are in all engine oils whether Dyno or Synthetic. Additives add metal protection and allow the oil to self clean better with the aid of the oil filter. As the engine runs it generates particles and also ingests particles from the air. These are small yet are large enough to cause wear if not filtered out.
Full flow oil filters need to allow all the oil that the pump can move to flow through with little to no obstruction. Hence the term full flow oil filter. This need of high flow means that the oil is not able to filter out small particles so they pass through and cause wear over time. Most full flow oil filters filter out about 20 microns or larger. This means very large particles pass through and will damage the engine. So the additives have a clumping effect taking the smaller particles and clumping them together to make particles bigger and these being bigger than 20 microns can now be filtered out. Over time these clumping additives which act like glue to bind these particles are all used up. It is now time to change the oil and filter. If the filter could filter down to 2 microns or even 1 micron the oil would be so clean that it would cause zero wear. Sadly no full flow oil filter can get oil to this level. We need a different type of oil filter to do this super fine particle filtering.

Enter the bypass oil filter. A bypass oil filter will from day one super filter the oil so that the oil leaving it, is as clean as new oil. Since the new oil starts out clean and it takes time for it to acquire dirty particles this small but ultra high filtration stays ahead of the damage by always replacing dirty oil with super clean oil. Here is where the Synthetic oil becomes an important addition to the team. Since Synthetic oil has a much higher additive package then Dyno oil, it can particle clump much longer thus adding time to the oil change interval. With the added bypass filter it too adds time to the oil change interval. Over the road truckers have known this for years. They change their oil once or twice a year, determined by oil analysis. It is this oil analysis that lets us know how well our engine and it's oil are doing and when it is all worn out and needs to be changed.

As a side point Railroad locomotives only run used engine oil. The old dirty oil is recycled and super filtered to >1 micron and a new additive package is added to bring it back to within spec. It is far cheaper and since it has gone though many miles has stabilized it's viscosity. So 40w is stable 40w. New oil will shear down from 40w to 30w over time.

Now as to oil viscosity weight. A single viscosity weight is great as long as the environment is within the proper working temperature. So if you plan on using your truck at the equator where the temps are within 15 degrees year round fine. Go with 40w oil. However, if where you are using this truck has winter and summer temps and these go from say 15 below zero to 115 above zero in the course of a year, you will either need to change your oil to a lighter viscosity in the winter to a medium viscosity in the spring to a heavier viscosity in the summer and back down in the fall and back again in the winter.
OR you can go with a multi viscosity oil and leave it in all year long with complete peace of mind because you have oil sampling to assure you that your oil is fine.
Most diesel oils are 15W40 this is a great all around weight as it will be 15W in cold temps and thicken up to 40W at higher temps. Protecting the engine as it works harder in warmer weather.

Synthetics will not turn into black or dark brown goo as it heats up. Remember that Mobil 1 oil commercial where the oil is heated in a pan? Synthetics are kings in the heat. This is what is used in hot jet engines. No Dyno oil can take this type of heat it will just gum up and stop moving.

As was mentioned before, there are oil filters that add a additive package to the oil when they are replaced. What this is and how effective it works is beyond this discussion. I am sure it is fine since these are included on MRAPS. To really know what is going on here would require a series of samples over time and comparing the oil with oil that is changed more often. Also one needs to look at a cost VS benefits thing. It might work but cost says it is not better.
So this should give enough to know what you should do.

Here are my final thoughts. If you hate changing oil often and want to save money... Use FULL synthetic 15w40 oil not blended. I use Schaffers 9000 it is about as good as it gets and is cheaper than almost any other brand. Mobil 1 is great but spendy. Amsoil is good but $$$. Consider adding a bypass oil filter. In the past I have used OIlguard. They are now another owner name IIRC. Look at what is out there and try to look through the hype.
I also would only use CAT oil and fuel filters. In my investigation these are the real deal and perform better than almost any other brand. Stay away from WIX and NAPA these are junk IMO. Baldwin is 2nd to Cat and Racor fuel filters are equal to CAT.
 

Reworked LMTV

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Synthetic oil isn't going to help with the situation that I think you're alluding to. The chief danger with not getting to operating temperature is that water condensed into the oil does not get a chance to boil off, and then you're recirculating that water through the engine causing corrosive damage over time. You'll have that issue with conventional or synthetic oil.
[/QUOTE
Synthetic oil isn't going to help with the situation that I think you're alluding to. The chief danger with not getting to operating temperature is that water condensed into the oil does not get a chance to boil off, and then you're recirculating that water through the engine causing corrosive damage over time. You'll have that issue with conventional or synthetic oil.
I stand by what I said.
 

AllenF

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There is no doubt that letting these trucks sit for extended periods of time is not good. Even the brakes can lock up in place from too much sitting. IMO best to run them ( not idling in place) every other week for about 45 min. so as to keep everything loose and clean and lubed. Tires need to roll to prevent them from rotting. Every 2 or 3 months take a nice 2 hr drive somewhere. Look for folks who need a truck to haul something. Working these rigs is what they like and need. Don't forget to use a good fuel additive to help keep the fuel fresh. Keeping the tank as fuel as possible helps to reduce moisture build up too. All the above is a minimum. The truck that is worked every day is the best running one;)
 

Awesomeness

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There is no doubt that letting these trucks sit for extended periods of time is not good. Even the brakes can lock up in place from too much sitting. IMO best to run them ( not idling in place) every other week for about 45 min. so as to keep everything loose and clean and lubed. Tires need to roll to prevent them from rotting. Every 2 or 3 months take a nice 2 hr drive somewhere. Look for folks who need a truck to haul something. Working these rigs is what they like and need. Don't forget to use a good fuel additive to help keep the fuel fresh. Keeping the tank as fuel as possible helps to reduce moisture build up too. All the above is a minimum. The truck that is worked every day is the best running one;)
Totally agree with that. The more I use it, the better it runs.
 

Floridianson

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I just happened to google it as I too have a 3116. Come to find out the marine Cat 3116 PCV system runs it back through the engine as you can not have oil or oil film discharged into the bilge. I just went with Rotella 15/40 this time and will read more.
 
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