Chinook Mishap @ OK Vet's Day Parade Investigation - 11/2018

USAFSS-ColdWarrior

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Here's the text of that news story....





NORMAN, Okla. - An Oklahoma Army National Guard Chinook helicopter made a daring landing Sunday at the Veteran's Memorial at Reaves Park, knocking people several feet off the ground.
"I just think everybody that was on the ground was surprised by it," said retired Lieutenant Colonel in the Army David (Dale) Magnin.
Navy veteran Eugene Krier said the winds resembled a tornado.
"If I'm not mistaken, I yelled 'Look out' because they called those the big wind, and that wind hit us, it hit us like a tornado," Krier said.
It was a day to celebrate our nation's heroes - Veterans Day. Vets said things were going great until the National Guard Chinook helicopter landed.
"That helicopter should have waved off, and gone around and said, 'Hey, it's not a safe landing zone, you need to get these people moved. I need some barricades, our police officers to back people up there,'" said Krier, who was a commander with the Navy for almost 23 years.
People had little time to move before the chopper knocked them off their feet, including Krier and his wife.
It even sent one person to the hospital.
Magnin started recorded the landing before he, too, was knocked off of his feet.
"If you look at the video, I couldn't catch the helicopter going all the way to the ground because I was blown back about 10 feet," Magnin said.
A spokesperson with the city of Norman said police and city crews directed people to clear the landing zone.
However, those we spoke with said they don't remember being told to move but they do remember seeing a police officer sitting in his car while the Chinook was coming in.
"To my knowledge, none of the people in the parade route were warned how much that wind would be," Magnin said.
Norman Mayor Lynn Miller said, in a statement, “We will will study the incident and encourage event organizers and volunteer participants to take additional needed precautions in the future that ensure an incident like this does not happen again.”
Veterans said they hope things go better next year.
"Planning ahead, I think the helicopter should have been on the ground there long, way before anybody showed up for the parade," Magnin said.
Krier said it put a bad ending on a good day.
"To me, it's unforgivable, it's a lack of coordination," he said.
The Oklahoma Army National Guard sent News 4 a statement regarding the incident:
"We had a CH-47 Chinook at yesterday's Veterans Day event in Norman. Coordination was made with city officials, OHP and Norman PD for the event. The pilots were able to communicate with law enforcement agents on the ground. We are currently gathering facts regarding this incident and will provide a follow up when we have more information."

 

M813rc

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Aggravated finger-pointing in progress!

Krier unfortunately displays his lack of full understanding of helicopters in wanting barricades - they either get blown over and become projectiles, or worse go up into the helo's rotors.
They just need to keep the ground personnel further back. From personal experience, trying to keep the general public off a designated area is like trying to herd monkeys. Particularly the ones who think they are special and the rules don't apply to them (they are also the first ones to complain when they get blown over).

Helo downdraught is equal to the weight of the helo itself, plus any momentum being arrested at the time. That's a LOT of air being moved. Back in my CH-53 days, we used to tell the ground troops to make sure they closed the front door on their buses, or make sure they opened the side windows and back door too. Quite frequently we'd come in to land, and the front windshield of a bus or two would plop out onto their hoods from the overpressure because only one door was open. :)

Cheers
 
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Just got home from Santa arriving by a Lifeflight helicopter.

The Police Chief and I were the only ones doing crowd control. You know that was going to be tough with the kids wanting to rush the bird before it landed.

Anyway, my rules were real simple - stay on the road/driveway. I had about 20 yards of "front" and was 50 to 60 yards from the LZ. Families standing on the road with their kids.

One little girl - maybe seven or eight - stepped off the road onto the grass. I told her to get back on the road. She asked how I could be on the grass, but she could not. I asked her how many helicopter landings she had been around. She said none and I told her I had a few more than that (25 years Army - retired). She got back on the road. Her father - about five feet from me mentioned that he had been around 300 or 400 landings and could take care of his kids just fine. I walked away.

A few minutes later the bird came in. He approached about 30 feet over the crowd on his way to the LZ. I was watching the crowd. I have seen helicopters land before. The prop wash was intense. Most of the folks on the road were forced to the back side and even off of it. The folks forced back included the father - and his family. :-D

I waited until the engine was shut down. By then the Chief (former Marine) was on his way toward the bird to escort Santa through the crowd.

I walked to my van and came home.

Some people.:roll:
 

marchplumber

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Someone ALWAYS knows more than the people trying desperately to protect them!! Darwin effect, takes 'em out of the "gene pool"................................ many years in Army Aviation, prop wash ain't nothing to mess with. Why would a man even protest about someone trying to protect his daughter? Now, do NOT tell 'em???? OH BOY, watch out then!
 

marchplumber

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Sad to say, in Germany, I am not allowed to open this link.
Seriously curious as to "why" you can not open that link in Germany..... Law? Internet problem? I'm not joking, I'm very curious as to why you can't open it in the free/democratic land of Germany. Send e-mail if you so desire or if answer might disturb site rules and regs...................
 

Tinstar

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Unfortunately the Hook pilots will get disciplined because they know the effects of their rotorwash and should have known the crowd was too close.
Rotorwash from a chinook is over 100 mph.
Initiate a go-around and radio that crowd is too close.
That simple.
I used to fly that type (MH-47E) and have done air shows and such
It’s very easy to determine from the cockpit if crowds are too close are not.

Joe Public will always want to be closer and think they know better than the safety officials.
Worst offenders are usually the veterans who should know better.

Everytime we did a fly in like that, we had a ground person there from our unit.
They would know what to look for as we approached and was a liaison for Fire/Police.
I would always do a High recon and then a low recon over the LZ.
Again, easy to tell if crowds are too close.

This incident is an example of bad communications, bad crowd management and poor pilot judgment.

It could have been worse.
 

Guyfang

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Seriously curious as to "why" you can not open that link in Germany..... Law? Internet problem? I'm not joking, I'm very curious as to why you can't open it in the free/democratic land of Germany. Send e-mail if you so desire or if answer might disturb site rules and regs...................
The "Free and Democratic" land of Germany blocks lots of things in the net. Mostly, its because of contractual issues. But not always. And they have a real problem with the rights of "the people". It is for instance against the law to post a picture of folks, who have all not given permission for you to do so. So you take a picture of a bridge, and have to block out peoples faces if you want to post it in the net. Car license plates also.

The following text was the only thing/reason it got when I tried to access that link.
WERE SORRY: THIS SITE NOT AVAILABLE IN YOUR COUNTRY.

Its "verboten" to display, for instance the Hackenkreutz, Swastika in Germany, (there are some exceptions). But if you do that in the net, the minders will shut you down. Big fine also. The whole world knows the Holocaust happened. Only a crackpot would deny that it not happened. But, there are crackpots in the world. In the states, you could post on the net, "The Holocaust is a Hoax", and people would say, "the boy is cracked". Here the Polizei would come and put you in the Slammer. Big fine. The displaying of literature that contradicts The Holocaust is reason enough to shut off your access to the net.

Its a different country, and they have different rules here.
 
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marchplumber

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The "Free and Democratic" land of Germany blocks lots of things in the net. Mostly, its because of contractual issues. But not always. And they have a real problem with the rights of "the people". It is for instance against the law to post a picture of folks, who have all not given permission for you to do so. So you take a picture of a bridge, and have to block out peoples faces if you want to post it in the net. Car license plates also.

The following text was the only thing/reason it got when I tried to access that link.
WERE SORRY: THIS SITE NOT AVAILABLE IN YOUR COUNTRY.

Its "verboten" to display, for instance the Hackenkreutz, Swastika in Germany, (there are some exceptions). But if you do that in the net, the minders will shut you down. Big fine also. The whole world knows the Holocaust happened. Only a crackpot would deny that it not happened. But, there are crackpots in the world. In the states, you could post on the net, "The Holocaust is a Hoax", and people would say, "the boy is cracked". Here the Polizei would come and put you in the Slammer. Big fine. The displaying of literature that contradicts The Holocaust is reason enough to shut off your access to the net.

Its a different country, and they have different rules here.
Thanks for the explanation! Quite true, different. Now, back to the story of the CH-47 landing and causing havoc.................................Sorry OP, didn't mean to hi-jack thread.
 

M813rc

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Joe Public will always want to be closer and think they know better than the safety officials.
Worst offenders are usually the veterans who should know better.
This incident is an example of bad communications, bad crowd management and poor pilot judgment.
Agreed. A lot of the veterans are used to such helos as Hueys and Cobras, and didn't ever experience the difference in rotorwash of heavy lift birds like the CH-53 and the Hook. Big surprise!

The pilot(s) was hotdogging too, which often has negative results. Judgement should overrule funtime, a spanking is deserved in this case. (Not like we ever did anything we shouldn't have in a helo....:whistle:)

Cheers
 
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