CUCV 24v. resistor ouhhhh.....

[allrevup]

Any one "on line" well verse with the CUCV starting system, that I can talk to about the CUCV 24v. resistor?

Please send private message so that I can CALL you right back live

 

[uscgmatt]

PM sent.

 

[solarmon]

Any one "on line" well verse with the CUCV starting system, that I can talk to about the CUCV 24v. resistor?

just throw that sucker away and hook your glow plug relay up to the 12 volts right there next to it on the firewall. .and say GOODBYE to fried glow plugs

 

[allrevup]

just throw that sucker away and hook your glow plug relay up to the 12 volts right there next to it on the firewall. .and say GOODBYE to fried glow plugs

You are so right.

I am already temporarily using the 12v. from the 2 post termina on the firewalll to the Glow Plug Relay input side. I will be going directly from the front battery to the relay input side, With a in line fuse to spare overloading the 2 post plug on the firewall circuit.

Thanks "uscgmatt" Matt for that suggestion during our phone conversation.

I Just needed to verify, if I had bench tested the resistor correctly?
I came up with 1.2 ohms from input side to the output side, Some one in another tread said that it should read 3 ohms, but I was not really sure of the procedure or values, nor could I find it in the TM's.

I would have like to have keep the 12/24v. GP system as originally intended but the GP failures lead me to bypass what I believe is a faulty resistor.

 

[Keith_J]

The reason for use of 24 volt GP is to reduce the draw on the batteries. But since half the energy is wasted in the ballast resistor, there is only the balance of each battery during starting. Since each battery is independently charged by each alternator, if you go with the 12 volt tap for the relay, you can offset this imbalance by using a larger front battery.

With equal sized batteries, tapping off the 12 volt side for the glow plugs will result in voltage depression in the front battery for the starter. This may affect extreme cold weather starting.

Yes, the ballast resistor has problems in cascade failure of glow plugs.

 

[coecamo]

I have owned my CUCV for over a year now. Even tried starting it setting outside in 15 degrees. I think my injectors leak down a little over a few days of setting idle but she fires right up . Remember these 6TL batteries will start a 250 hp CUMMINGS. A 6.2L is not an extreme load on them. When I looked into group 31s some time back cranking amps were higher and that rating is at 0 degrees My CUCV has glow feed off 12 volt terminal block it works fine . Fuse links are heavy enough. Gary

 

[Keith_J]

15 degree isn't extreme cold for the design of the CUCV. And the glow plug load is significant, especially at -40 temps.

 

[allrevup]

The reason for use of 24 volt GP is to reduce the draw on the batteries. But since half the energy is wasted in the ballast resistor, there is only the balance of each battery during starting. Since each battery is independently charged by each alternator, if you go with the 12 volt tap for the relay, you can offset this imbalance by using a larger front battery.

With equal sized batteries, tapping off the 12 volt side for the glow plugs will result in voltage depression in the front battery for the starter. This may affect extreme cold weather starting.

Yes, the ballast resistor has problems in cascade failure of glow plugs.

OK, point well taken.

On Friday 2/19/'09
I talk to Kevin a technician at IND.Inc., the makers of Diesel Rx or Wellman's GP. He said that the initial amp draw from each G070 is 15 amps per Glow plug (actually about 17), if only for a moment as they heat the amp draw decreases.

Other then;
1- replacing the resistor when it fails. Hopefully before a glow plug's meltdown. Even if you check the starting/charging systems often it is going to bite you at the wrong time.
2- One or another Roscommon Equipment Center 12v. conversions with each of their advantages and disadvantages. I would rather not
3- What else can you do to over come the BIG draw on a single battery? and as you mention the electrical inbalance.
never mind the advantages of a properly functioning 24v. resistor system.

I tried to prevent and repair know problems and "Murphy's Law" prevailed...

My October to February list;

a- two rebuilt #1105500 alternator; one rotor, 2 brush sets, 2 voltage rectifiers, 2 voltage regulators, bearings sets and Gates HD belts
b- two new 1000CA/850CCA/150min. RC, fleet battery terminals, one quick battery disconnect
c- New AC 13g GP's to replace the G070 from Nov. '09
d- CarQuest solenoid #84373 (their Ford constant duty, I think ST85 equivalent.
e- AC 40 starter relay
f- Wagner 224 turn signal relay
g- Wagner 552 hazard relay
h- Songle industrial 12v.30/40 amp relays, to replace BOSCH 12v. 20/30 amps.
i- NAPA #GPS201 cold advance sensor/switch
j- NAPA #TS4052sb coolant temperature sensor/switch NEW style connector
k- NAPA #TSC200 New style connector pig tail
l- NAPA 16 bulbs equivalents to OEM GE 168
m- clean instrument board, connectors and fuse block, all new fuses, 90% of the wire connection cleaned and retrofitted with washers & connectors and dielectric grease
I have a new control card and wire hardness, but I have not seen the need, YET.

 

[mark69k20]

my clan of cucv owners have all done the 12v glow plug resistor bypass. My brother started the bypass band wagon after frying 8 new glow plugs when his resistor crapped out.

4 Upstate NY and 1 DE daily drivers have been modified since Oct 09 or so, no issues to date.

 

[Keith_J]

The best solution is to use 24 volt glow plugs and bypass the ballast resistor. That and better glow plug design that don't expand when they fry. I think the older HMMWV plugs should work.

I know the Beru/Bosch glow plugs are like this, if they have an over-current issue, they fail open before they melt themselves into a blob.

 

[mark69k20]

The best solution is to use 24 volt glow plugs and bypass the ballast resistor. That and better glow plug design that don't expand when they fry. I think the older HMMWV plugs should work.

I know the Beru/Bosch glow plugs are like this, if they have an over-current issue, they fail open before they melt themselves into a blob.

Didn't know they were 24volt...you say the origional humvee w/ same 6.2 where 24 volt????

Bad plugs I heard of/seen on these cucv's were failed "open" none swollen yet... what kind of issue would allow them to melt?

revedup, Check out this thread, gives you alot of discussion about your resistor... lead to mine being removed prior to burning up my plugs.

Good luck!

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/42353-smokes-white-no-start.html

 

[Crash_AF]

The best solution is to use 24 volt glow plugs and bypass the ballast resistor. That and better glow plug design that don't expand when they fry. I think the older HMMWV plugs should work.

I know the Beru/Bosch glow plugs are like this, if they have an over-current issue, they fail open before they melt themselves into a blob.

The problem with this is that there is a voltage sense line to the controller card and constant 24V will fry it and other components on the card over time. If you could figure out how to install a resistor to drop the 24V to 12V only for that sense wire, then you could follow your plan.

Later,
Joe

 

[allrevup]

The best solution is to use 24 volt glow plugs and bypass the ballast resistor. That and better glow plug design that don't expand when they fry. I think the older HMMWV plugs should work.

I know the Beru/Bosch glow plugs are like this, if they have an over-current issue, they fail open before they melt themselves into a blob.

I am not sure about using any 24v. GP as the rest of the system is for 12v. GP's.

I thought about the self regulating AC 60G made in Germany by Beru and the Wellman equivalent G050 and also did ask here about first hand CUCV experience with the Bosch Duraterm premium BS80034 with a 3 years warranty, but no one reply

So back to the AC 13g and no fail safe measure, is there such a thing in the CUCV ?

 

[jj]

I'm currently using AC-Delco 60G's with a manual control switch on my M-1009. No problems starting at all down to 0F. And i lean on that switch for two cycles of the WAIT TO START light. Out of curiosity i pulled the plugs after last winter. No sign of swelling or degradation. I also use the Bosch 80034's in a 2002 6.5 in a G-van. It still uses the automatic control. They also work quite well down to 0F. Oh yeah, the 60g's are wired through the big resistor, and draw from both batteries. I don't think the 60G's would heat enough on the civilian van with just one cycle, and it just slays my wife to wait even that long to start it. Hope this was some useful information.

 

[Keith_J]

The problem with this is that there is a voltage sense line to the controller card and constant 24V will fry it and other components on the card over time. If you could figure out how to install a resistor to drop the 24V to 12V only for that sense wire, then you could follow your plan.

Later,
Joe

Resistors only drop voltage when there is current according to Ohm's Law (V = I * R). The controller has limited current draw, this wire is at 24 volts whenever there is no glow plug activity.

Now if you were to use a 7812 voltage regulator, the glow plug control card would never "see" any glow plug activity.

 

[allrevup]

I think is awesome how some of you think this electrical design issues through.

Some of this electrical stuff is over me, so I'm thankful for the post and all the information it has help me better understand the pros and cons of it..

I hope the totality of parts and repairs will make my CUCV as reliable as it was for 5 1/2 years.

I just don't like working on the same (related) issues over and over.

 

[cosmobius]

Keith_J, I sent you a PM regarding fuse size for the protection of the GP system with resistor bypass.

Input from others would also be appreciated but i didn't want to steal this thread.

 

[Jstatic77]

going from front battery to GP relay, is the existing gauge wire off the 24V buss large enough if I extend it?

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

1. It's not clear what you are trying to do. You'll need to explain a bit more so we can help you.
2. It would be better to start your own thread. This one is waay past its "Sell By" date.

Just go to the main forum page and look for the big orange "Post New Thread" button, and give it a click. If you can post pics of what you are trying to do, that's even better.