CUCV Glow plug questions

[rfischba1]

What is the part number for the Napa rubber return fuel line kit ( hoses for the 6.2 diesel, also do they stock the glow plugs.
Thanks

 

[Michael]

RE: Napa return fuel lines

It is the same as all 6.2 civi trucks. You can get AC60G plugs at NAPA and they are usually in stock since that is what GM recommends for all 6.2 and 6.5 diesels now. It is what I use in all of my CUCVs.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Napa return fuel lines

the ac60g's are not the direct military replacment. The correct plug for a cucv is Wellman 070. You can get them fairly cheap on ebay. The return hose kit you can also get quite cheap either from ebay or from the parts store (its the same as the civilian part)

 

[AJMBLAZER]

RE: Napa return fuel lines

Just put a set of the Wellman 070's into Big Ugly. Good stuff!

Found it had Wellman 070's already in it. They were so old the truck finally refused to start. Grungy, goey, and old but they weren't warped at all. They're all I'm going to use from now on.

 

[Michael]

RE: Napa return fuel lines

the ac60g's are not the direct military replacment. The correct plug for a cucv is Wellman 070.

Do you have references for this statement?

 

[AJMBLAZER]

RE: Napa return fuel lines

I'm not CCATLETT1984 but I can say for a fact that my truck came out of the Minnesota Army NG in 2006 with Wellman 070's in it.

 

[FMJ]

Re: RE: Napa return fuel lines

the ac60g's are not the direct military replacment. The correct plug for a cucv is Wellman 070.

Do you have references for this statement?

The 60G's are 12 volt, the Wellmans are 24, I bypassed my firewall resistors with a wire to supply 12 volts only, and run 60G's in my 1008.

 

[rfischba1]

RE: Re: RE: Napa return fuel lines

why did you change o 12v, is that a better set up then staying w the orginal setup?
New owner, just wondering?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: RE: Napa return fuel lines

not better, but if you ever have to replace the starter its something to think about.

 

[FMJ]

RE: Re: RE: Napa return fuel lines

I'm told the 60g's are self limiting, which eliminates the balloning tips/broken off tips. FWIW

Somone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Michael]

RE: Re: RE: Napa return fuel lines

Yes, the 60g are self limiting. I am not disputing that the Wellmans aren't a good choice, but I would like to see some proof that they are the only choice. This is about the third time I have been corrected on the forum and yes I have noticed that my post in the FAQ was changed to say something I don't believe. I will include three references. Two of them are from civilian sources, but they still have some good info.

http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/05-10/0235.html

http://en.allexperts.com/q/GM-GMC-781/6-2-diesel.htm

http://flashoffroad.com/Diesel/GlowPlug/DieselGlowplug.htm

 

[cagosti]

24 volt glow plugs ??

I notice above that "welmans are 24 volt "... When in a proper operating cucv system
is there 24 volts on the glow plugs??

charles

 

[FMJ]

Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

I notice above that "welmans are 24 volt "... When in a proper operating cucv system
is there 24 volts on the glow plugs??

charles

Yes, 24 volts is applied to the gp's, then its reduced via the resistors on the firewall. Thats why, when I swapped in the 60G's I bypassed the resistors, and applied 12 volts only to the gp"s

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

ok, lets see if we can straighten this out.

When you first turn the key on and the glow plug controller card calls for the plugs to heat, 24v is sent through the ballast resistors to the glow plug relay. Then within seconds as the current flow heats up the resistors, the voltage drops to ~16volts (this is in a healthy system). The voltage stays at this level throughout the time the plugs are being heated. Now notice above i mentioned those voltages being with a healthy system, when a glow plug dies it increases the voltage going through all the others, because you now have less resistors in the path to ground and the glow plugs are all wired in parllel. As one dies, the rest will follow shortly, as a snowball effect builds up.

Now the reason for using the wellman plug, instead of the stock GM plug is simple, AC60G's are NOT designed to take that quick initial load of 24volts. They may live for a month or a year, but thats luck of the draw. Civilian plugs called "quick heat plugs" are actually 6v glow plugs that receive 12volts so they heat "quickly", this is fine in a vehicle where the plugs will never see above 14.5volts, but think of that 6volt plug being exposed to 24volts for a few seconds on every start. The wellman plug is rated for the voltages that the glow plug system sees in the CUCV. It is worth noting that both the AC60G and the wellman 070 plugs are self-regulating and non-swelling. The difference that we are concerned about is the voltage ranges they are designed to operate with.

 

[Michael]

RE: Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

And where does this information come from?

The AC13G was a 6 volt plug, the AC60G is a 10.5 volt plug. The voltage drop is almost instantaneous once the load is placed on it. From my first reference:

As measured with a good digital meter 10.5 volts on one 12 volt battery and 11.5 volts with the original military resistor bank back in operation measured at the glow plugs.

If the wellman 070 is rated for 24 volts how does it work with a voltage dropping resistor?

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

the wellman plug is not a true 24volt glow plug, I'll have to do some searching but I believe its a 12volt coil, and on my cucv with a properly functioning GP system, I get a sustained 16volts to the plugs.

Regarding your reference voltages above, if you have 10.5volts on your battery then something is wrong, thats too low even accounting for the load placed by the GP's.

http://www.saturnsurplus.com/cucv/cucv.htm (note they list wellman's # along with the NSN)
http://www.wellmanautomotive.com/industries.php#military (here is the link from wellman's page regarding their military sales.)
http://www.wellmanautomotive.com/pdf/WAP-Catalog.pdf (here is the product selection catalog)
http://www.wellmanautomotive.com/pdf/Competitor-Ref.pdf (here is the cross-reference list for their plugs, note the lack of a cross for the 070)
http://www.tpub.com/content/logistics/29/20/83/01-151-3627.htm (here is a listing of the suppliers for the NSN for the cucv glow plug, note wellman is a supplier) They do list the AC13G on that page, which i'm not sure about.

Part number 6A843G070
NSN 2920-01-151-3627

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

Also another thing to note is that the wellman plugs use the proper sized connector for the spades, vs. the 60G that has the wrong size spade for the cucv wiring harness. The difference is the 3/16" CUCV spade connector versus the regular 1/4" connector.

 

[Michael]

RE: Re: 24 volt glow plugs ??

I have read through your links and concede that you have well documented that the 070 is an acceptable glow plug for the CUCV. I did not read anything that said the AC60G is an unacceptable glow plug to use. The size of the connector has been discussed in the past and easily corrected. If you do use wellman be sure to use current production. Wellman has changed hands several times in the past 20 years and was turning out some bad plugs in the past.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/433/433.F3d.939.05-1557.05-1289.html

A big plus in my book is that the 60G can be found in most auto parts stores in stock.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

on the note about the spades beinge different sizes, why buy plugs that you will have to modify or modify your harness, when you dont have to? The wellman plugs arent much more expensive if at all than the gm glow plugs.

 

[rfischba1]

So its up to the buyer to chose, I think I will go with the Wellman's since they were the orginial part. Will Saturn be the place to buy a reliable set from?