Deuce oil.

[mudguppy]

I don't believe it. ...

well, in the DS shop i ran (632nd Maint Co Ft. Stewart), everything got 15w-40. even 396th Trans Co (48 PLS + 15 HETTS from 233rd) run 15w-40.

why do you think the DD need a special oil?

 

[cranetruck]

The only problem with single weight oil is that it must be changed to SAE10 when the temp drops, but where I live and how I drive, the SAE30 is perfect.

Edit: Added DD lube requirements (image from a pamphlet).

As usual, right click on image and open link in new window for full res.

 

[JDToumanian]

Fascinating. Thanks for the pic, Clinto!

I guess I can accept that the military has put this stuff in deuces, but that does not make it better than 30w. If I may make a suggestion, I would tell people to follow the LO for their vehicle.

Does everyone understand why single weight oils are superior? I will explain it very briefly in layman's terms.

Let's take a 15w-40 oil. The base stock for this oil is 15 weight. Period. Into this 15 weight oil, they add microscopic polymer particles that are kinda like tiny springs. When the oil is cold, the springs are tightly coiled, which allows the oil to flow freely. As the oil warms up, the springs stretch out and slow the flow of the oil, giving it the flow characteristics of a 40 weight oil. These polymer springs are easily burned by high oil temps, and eventually wear out... This is called "viscosity breakdown".

A 30 weight oil is only a 30 weight oil... There are no polymer particles... There is nothing "artificial". The only benefit I can see for using 15w-40 is for cold starts in freezing temperatures.

Jon

 

[BKubu]

While I usually like to use Shell Rotella 15W40 for the reasons stated above, I will also use Mobil Delvac 15W40 or even Valvoline 15W40 if the price difference is big. NAPA brand oil is Valvoline or so I was told. Really, you can't go wrong with a name brand oil. I don't believe you will experience any difference in performance with the average usage these trucks get. Most guys are not putting 50,000, 75,000, or more miles on their trucks in a given year.

I like to leave my trucks stock, but I will say that the spin on filters that JATONKA has will extend the life of your motor. They might be more important than the type of oil you use in my opinion...as long as it is 15W40.

 

[JDToumanian]

why do you think the DD need a special oil?

It's because in a 2-cycle Detroit Diesel, every downward stroke of the piston is a power stroke. This makes the piston crown temperatures very high compared to a 4-stroke where only every-other downward stroke is a power stroke. The high piston temperatures of a 2-cycle Detroit ruin the little polymer springs in a multi-grade oil, breaking it down very quickly...... like, in minutes.

Jon

 

[mudguppy]

...The high piston temperatures of a 2-cycle DD ruin the little polymer springs in a multi-grade oil, breaking it down very quickly...... like, in minutes.

Jon

k. so why wouldn't the monthly oil sampling and analysis catch this?

 

[greensix]

I was using the rotella 15w40w for years and have recently switched to rotella synthetic in my m35a2 and hmmwv m998. The downfall on the synthetic besides price is it can cause more leaking if you already have some.

 

[cranetruck]

k. so why wouldn't the monthly oil sampling and analysis catch this?

Could you scan and show us one of those reports? It would show up in the viscosity reading....unless somehow that action Jon described is reversible...

Edit: Spelling....

 

[mudguppy]

Could you scan and show us on of those reports? It would show up in the viscosity reading....unless somehow that action Jon described is reversible...

no - i've been out of the company for 4 years and out of the Army for 3 years.

basically, the sample goes to the lab (gov contracted civies) and a report is generated back. nobody ever paid attention to the specifics, just the instructions, i.e.:

- silicon (dirt) in oil - check air filter/housing, change oil and resubmit sample
- coolant in oil - repair, change oil and resubmit sample
- fuel in oil - repair, change oil and resubmit sample
- high metal content - replace engine
- change oil and resubmit sample
- normal results, no action required

so even if everything else was hunky-dory, they wouldn't change the oil until the report said to. i would have to assume that the basic pinciples of oil shear were a part of that test and would be caught.

 

[wsucougarx]

rotella-T 15/40 (3 gallons) and the other 2 gallons I use the Synthetic Rotella. Why do I do this? I have no idea Peace of mind I guess or just money burning in my pockets

 

[JDToumanian]

....Wouldn't the monthly oil sampling and analysis catch this? .....I would have to assume that the basic principles of oil shear were a part of that test and would be caught.

I'm not sure there. If the viscosity modifiers got burned, maybe the oil would still behave as a 15 weight and it's failing at high temps would go un-noticed until the analysis showed high metallic content?

I slightly exaggerated how quickly 15w-40 will destroy a Detroit. According to the factory DD oil tech bulletin I have from 1995, 15w-40 should only be used in an emergency, and be changed as soon as possible to prevent liner scuffing.

Travis, I can't imagine why they would have you putting 15w-40 oil in engines that have a special mil-spec oil, OE/HDO-40, available for them in the supply chain.

Jon

 

[mudguppy]

Jon, i could be crazy, i guess. but when we stock up on our POL ASL 15w40 was topping the list. customers were required to bring their own POL for the task being performed and i remember seeing 15w40 most all the time. the only time i remember seeing much of anything else was either for tranny's or hydraulic systems.

i'm confused now.

 

[M725]

I don't believe it. For example, two-cycle Detroit Diesel engines - which the military still has hundreds of thousands of in everything from HEMTTs to gensets - require a special oil that is unique and not used in any other engine..... OE/HDO-40. That's SAE 40w, rated CF-2 (Just for 2-strokes!) and also meets MIL-PRF-2104G. It is widely known that multi-grade oils cause liner scuffing, wrist pin wear, and consequent short lifespan and high oil consumption in these engines.

The military has almost finished getting rid of the older vehicles like deuces. There is no LO that has ever told you to put 15w-40 into a Multifuel engine. There is a reason.

Jon

The FMS here buys and use 15w-40 only in all engines, on top of it is recycled oil . When we went to the field as long as I can remember it has always been 15w-40.

 

[jimm1009]

Engine oil

Isn't SAE30 straight weight non-detergent oil?
I understand the posts on this thread but I would think that you still want a detergent oil.
Silly minds like mine need to know...

Anyone know what NAPA sells in 30 wt. for these engines?

Jim

 

[cranetruck]

Isn't SAE30 straight weight non-detergent oil?
I understand the posts on this thread but I would think that you still want a detergent oil.
Silly minds like mine need to know...

Anyone know what NAPA sells in 30 wt. for these engines?

Jim

From NAPA or Carquest...

 

[JDToumanian]

Isn't SAE30 straight weight non-detergent oil?

No, it's still got the detergents, anti-foam additives, etc. and it meets the new API CJ-4 rating for use with ultra-low sulphur fuels. The only difference is that it is made from a 30wt base stock instead of 15wt, and it does not have viscosity modifying polymers.

Most of the major brands that make 15w-40, like Texaco (Ursa), Mobil (Delvac), Shell (Rotella), or Chevron (DELO), also make it in 30w. I use Chevron DELO 400 30w myself, but it's really just because there is a Chevron Industrial Lubricants dealer near me that sells it in 5-gal buckets. Napa can order any brand you wish, but the one near me keeps 30w Rotella and DELO in stock.

Bjorn - I have a theory I have not checked into yet.... Since Chevron and Texaco merged, are DELO and Ursa still two different products or are they now the same thing just branded differently? ........One of the customers I used to service when I was still a switchman with the railroad was a Pennzoil bottling plant.... I discovered that Pennzoil, Kendall, and Quaker State are all the same. One supply tank to the bottling line, but differently branded bottles and cardboard boxes depending on what they're filling that day. An employee confirmed my suspicion.

Jon

 

[SEAFIRE]

We've been using NAPA SAE30 ever since we got our first deuce as that is what the military manual we have said to use....

Our two diesel mechanics have talked about changing oil type, but we haven't yet.

We did change to NAPA 80w/90 for the tranny, transfer case, winch, and the difs.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[cranetruck]

Jon, this is the back side of the jug.

(Right click on image and open link in new window to read)

 

[grounded]

I use rotella 15w40 but have contemplated trying our John Deere 50w that we have here that we run in all our farm tractors just cause we buy it in 55 gallon drums. But havent wanted to risk it yet. Besides still got get the trucks road worthy

 

[gonorth]

Rotella 15-40, have used it in my dodge/cummins for years too. (even tru winter) Diesels are setup to handle the heavier oil. Also use it in the 350 HP inboard engine in my boat and lawn tractors too.

Sams Club $10 per gallon, they usually have it in cases of three 1 gallon jugs and cases of two 2.5 gallon jugs. Or 55 gallon barrels but it is pretty much the same price per gallon in the barrel quantities.