Deuce overheating help.

[halftrack]

Well, looks like it was the thermostat. I got a new one in today and the truck runs at around 185. I tested the old t-stat and it opens but didn't have a thermometer to see what temp it opens at.

I feel better.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

don't save the old one. THROW it AWAY NOW!!!!!!!

 

[Beerslayer]

Esmerelda Enters Menopause

My turn. My beloved Esmerelda, '67 Kaiser Jeep Deuce, has started having hot flashes.

Details:
1992 Tooele Depot rebuild. Not sure if radiator was done.
Turned the pump up one turn of the nut.
Isspro pyrometer installed.
Truck has been sitting a few years, now I drive it a lot.

When running down the freeway on flat ground around 45-50 mph, on 60 deg F day, it runs around 180. If I push quickly it up to say 55 mph, gets up to 240 right away. On return home, checked radiator temp with my hand, it felt about 100 deg. Thermostat housing felt hot. Big temperature differential. Suspect thermostat isn't opening.

Took out the thermostat and tested it. It opens in a pan of water around 185-190 tested temp with candy thermometer.

Left the thermostat out and put it back together with new radiator cap. Noticed that when pouring the coolant back in, I could only get about half of it in before it didn't want to take anymore. The rest of the coolant took about an hour, pouring a little at a time to get it all in. This made me suspect that the tubes are plugged or restricted.

Fired it up with the radiator covered with cardboard so it would come up to temp. Pulled the cardboard off at 170 deg, about 15 minutes running at 1300 rpm.

Got on the freeway and ran at 50-55. Temps stayed around 180 until I pulled a hill. I held speed to 50-53 and the temp shot up to 220. Exhaust temp was 6-800 until near the top of the hill, poured the fuel to it and the exhaust temp went up to for maybe 20 seconds or so.

Going down the hill, I coasted for a ways, and backed off to 45-50 mph and it cooled down to 200 deg and stayed there until I reached my destination. After 10 minutes of idling it cooled down to 170.

Picked up 2 tons of grain on pallets and and headed home. Kept the speed down to 45-50 the whole way. Exhaust temp read 6-700, one stretch on the hill I let it get to 900 just briefly. Coolant temp stayed at 180 on the flats at 35 mph, went to 200 when I sped up and stayed there the rest of the trip.

I think the temperature gauge is probably accurate but will buy an infrared device to check it.

Things I checked:
No visible sediment in coolant that was drained out.
Coolant was green, perhaps slightly cloudy, but not milky. Color was good.
No exhaust bubbles showing in radiator.
No coolant in oil.
No oil in coolant.
No coolant in exhaust.
Fan belts were tight.
Thermostat was correctly installed.
Fan correctly installed.
No coolant leaks.

I have a new thermostat as yet uninstalled.
Considering having the radiator flow and pressure tested and getting the engine flushed.

What thinks you all?

Thanks!

 

[emmado22]

get the rad out and professionally cleaned/tested. I bet that will solve the problem. If it doesnt, atleast you know the rad is in good shape.

 

[tm america]

probably not the rad . i bet the thermostat isnt opening all the way had that happen before way to many times .change the thermostat first they are way cheaper than a rad . you could take the t stat out and check for flow in the rad.

 

[cranetruck]

These engines run cool, for all my driving the temp has never exceeded 208°F (my max). I'd go with emmado's suggestion, flush the rad and engine. While the radiator is off, check the water pump.
Of course, replace the coolant if it's more than a few years old.

 

[Recovry4x4]

You will find this if you pull the radiator but the lower hose and that area of the radiator are subject to sediment buildup. Check that real good!

 

[Beerslayer]

Thanks for the suggestions! I am using all of them. Esmerelda is in the shop this morning and is getting the radiator flushed, flow and pressure tested, and block flushed, and a new thermostat installed. I will report back how that works.

 

[Beerslayer]

Update and Request For Information:

Esmerelda is still in the shop. They found the radiator 50% plugged. They rodded it out and reinstalled it with a new Napa thermostat P/N 358-180. Called them this morning and they said the new thermostat wasn't opening and they were trying to figure out why. Called again and they said the thermostat sleeve corroded and causing the thermostat to not open correctly. Said they had removed it and sent it to Napa so they could try and match it correctly. OK that's the update.

Now a request for information! I have read many radiator and overheating threads here and have seen no mention of a thermostat sleeve as something to be checked or as a replaceable item.

Can someone with more knowledge than I please shed some light on this subject? Is this a hunt for a skyhook they are on?

Thanks!

 

[Michael]

Could they be talking about the seal?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/26479-changing-thermostat-questions.html

 

[OPCOM]

... If it is the head gaskets, make sure you get the new style without the fire rings...

comparative web page of both kinds of head gaskets, click for hi-rez:
Untitled Normal Page

 

[OPCOM]

I took the thermostat out and that seems to have been the problem. I ran it for 30min at 2000 rpm and it got up to 190. Still above normal operating range but up until now it was getting up to 220 in about 10 min.

What do you guys think? When I bought it and drove it out from New Orleans it stayed right at 200 the whole trip, but based on other post on here I would have expected it to run a lot cooler now that I have flushed out the system and replaced the hoses and radiator.

On a positive note the gun is now up and running, couldn't afford a Ma Deuce so had to go with a 1919a4

Nice setup! I'd like a hardtop mount, and figure a way to hang a Lahti L39 on it. Only a little heavier than the M2, perhaps different balance.. the hardtop and mount can as usual be bought at the Hotel Costa-Plenti.

 

[cranetruck]

I looked at the housing and the thermostat fits snuggly in it. The moving part of the thermostat slides in and out of an opening also with a tight fit. There is no separate seal. If the opening for the moving part is corroded, you'll need a new housing not a different T-stat....

How did they test it?

 

[Beerslayer]

They said there was a removable sleeve. I wonder if they are talking about a Blanking Sleeve. It is not the seal or gasket. They didn't say how they tested it, they just said it wasn't opening when it should.

It did sound weird to me.

This is the biggest radiator shop in Portland, they have been around a long time and have a good reputation, and work on a lot of trucks.

A Blanking Sleeve is what you put in a thermostat housing when you run without a thermostat in order to maintain correct coolant circulation. I know you shouldn't have one of those installed in conjunction with a thermostat.

 

[Beerslayer]

Could they be talking about the seal?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/26479-changing-thermostat-questions.html

Well Michael, turns out you were right. They replaced the Thermostat Housing Seal Napa part number THM 4662. I can see how that could cause the thermostat to not open properly if it was binding against it.

The service writer called it a sleeve but it isn't. I asked for the part number and that told the story.

 

[Michael]

If they came up with the part number on their own they are definitely an above average place.

 

[Beerslayer]

If they came up with the part number on their own they are definitely an above average place.

They took the old seal out and sent it with the Napa delivery driver.

Update:

The mechanic decided that the P/N 4662 seal fit too tight. He took it out destroying it in the process and now is trying to find the "right one". Napa doesn't have another one in Portland. I found three by calling around. Here are the part numbers:

Carquest 30981
Cummins 188318
DSU Peterbuilt 5125235 5134269
Stant 25010
White 1601173 483183

These service guys seem to just want to fumble around and won't call me. Think I am going to have to drive over there and finish the job myself.

 

[cranetruck]

Don't mind me, just posting a picture, so that I can follow what you are doing.

 

[Beerslayer]

Don't mind me, just posting a picture, so that I can follow what you are doing.

That's a real nice picture, thanks!

So I finally call the service department manager at the radiator shop and give him an opportunity to do some damage control. I have his job in my field and understand how things go. I explain where he can find the thermostat seals, what the part numbers are, and what the procedure is for correct installation [thanks guys!], and ask that my truck please be ready this afternoon. About an hour later I get a call, my truck is ready.

They decided that the temperature guage is reading 40 degrees too hot. It ran 240 all the way home. Upon arrival home, I immediately checked the motor temperature with the Harbor Freight IR temperature guage I just bought. The average temperature was around 160. I checked the head, thermostat housing, water pump, every place I could point that red dot. The temp guage still read 240.

Based on what I saw, I think it is reading about 80 degrees too hot

I feel like a dumbass as I did not try to verify the accuracy of the guage beforehand. The way it registered seemed accurate, who knew it was just Way Off. Certainly not me. Not only that, the radiator shop said the core was 50% plugged. Not 52%, not 47%, but exactly 50% plugged.

Well the good news is that Esmerelda is not going to overheat any time soon

So they rodded out the radiator, had to remove both tanks. They pencil whipped the bill a bit, so it was pretty reasonable for all that they did.

Thing is now, I need a new temperature guage and...

Questions for the Geniuses Here:

Do I need to replace guage and sender?

Should I go with Mil Surplus or "Auto Meter" as recommended by generally non-communicative radiator shop guy?

I am just flat astounded that a SW temperature guage could be that far off.

 

[cranetruck]

The oem gauges are usually very accurate. Check your sending unit, wiring and get a new military one.