DISCUSSION - Slobbering Multifuel Cure?

[FSBruva]

Good call houdel.

Thanks

 

[ken]

Yea, down here it never gets cold so i usally keep warm less than 3 min. I was waiting for the air pressure to come up. But i could see someone up north letting the heater warm up the cab before leaving.
Idling before shut down is much more important. It keeps coking in the turbo to a min.

 

[cranetruck]

Engine slobber according to PS magazine:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/module...ile=index&name=gallery&include=view_photo.php

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Hey Lee when you mention a recirculating electric coolant heater are you talking about freeze plug heaters and/or a tank heater?

If yes ... I've already gone that route. If no, "please" advise as you may be on to something.

With my bobbed, and therefore lightened deuce I'm unable to get the operating temp up in the 140 degree range even in relatiely warm winter weather --- say 10 to 20 degrees F. On cold days the windshield defrosters are a lost cause --- that's a real problem.

Slobber is an agrivation but I can't help but believe that running that big chunk of iron @ 140 degrees for extended periods of time has"got" to be hard on the on the engine.

If all else fails I've been thinking about going with a "slight" propand injection --- just enough to increase the idle speed 100 or maybe 200 RPM and leaving it on while cruising on cold days. I'm told a "little" propane will dry up a diesel and stop wet-stacking (slobbering) but I don't know if it will build heat.

I know when a gas engine is converted to propane the engine runs cooler. If anyone knows how a deisel reacts I would like to know. It would be interesting to see some threads on propane.

Also, there has been a lot of talk about oil usage in this thread and no doubt, with many trucks wet stacking is a result of oil usage. I don't see how my truck can keep from blowing and burning oil when it's running at 135 degrees. Having said this, I think for the most part the black "slobber" we see on the stack is diesel fuel NOT engine oil. I'm told the injectors in the Multi-Fuel engines spray fuel on the cylinder walls rather than directly in the conbustion chamber (like a Cummins). On a cold day the liner (cylinder wall) is going to be the coldest part of the engine therefore some/much of the fuel that comes in contact with the cold liners is not going to ignite and will be expelled.

If you put a small amount if diesel fuel in a skillet and then heat the skillet in an attempt to get the fuel to ignite it will smoke and make a nasty black mess that looks like diesel motor oil. On the other hand, if you heat up a skillet to where it's really hot and then introduce a teaspoon of diesel fuel it will immediately flash with very little to no smoke. This is why a diesel runs so good once you get a fire built in them.

Note --- be careful with the skillet experiment!!! Diesel fuel isn't inocent when it flashes. Do it at your own risk.

 

[houdel]

The "recirculating electric coolant heater" I meant was one of those 110V jobbies with a heater and pump built into one unit. You plumb it up through your heater hoses & the pump circulates heated coolant through the engine. Deuces are definately over cooled, especially in the winter time. An Arctic grille cover would help (or even a piece of plywood in front of the radiator). I run the Arctic gille cover year round and seldom get over 180 degrees with the flap rolled up. Removing the fan would also help prevent over cooling, as well as cut down on noise and improve MPG. Those fans take a LOT of HP to turn, and make a LOT of noise too! I'm thinking of pulling my fan off and only using the grill cover in cold weather, although I'd like to keep the cover on because it does look cool though.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Lee ... You're right, the arctic winter front does make your deuce look cool. Not necessarily so with mine --- see attached picture.

Looks like we will install the fan tomorrow. A new post with pictures will follow.

I'm planning on completely blanking out the radiator except for where the 16" fan will will be positioned. Because of tight tolerences I'm electing to position the 2360CFM Spal pusher fan between the radiator and front grill. This may not be desireable to some because it requires inserting a piece of 5" round in the center of the M35 grill to allow for clearance of the fan motor. The end result will be 5" round diamond plate protrusion sticking out of the grill approximately 1/2". It's not a big change but it also ain't standard military.

I'm removing the black-out light and then blanking out the black-out light and horn port areas under the headlights with sheet metal. I'll then have a custom winter front made that will only cover the center "grill" area.

It will be interesting to see what the fan project will gain me in better heating, more power, better fuel economy and a quieter ride.

I've heard the standard M35 fan pulls 13HP though I've also been told that the HP draw goes down as road speed increases. Noise certainly does not. If anything, it may increase.

I replaced the water pump fan on my M37 with a pusher fan and it didn't buy me any added fuel economy. It may be impossible to get above 10MPG on an M37.

Thanks for the advise on the electric heater. We call 'em tank heaters up here in the land of blond hair and blue ears.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Evidently the "winter-front" picture won't post because of a pixel (size) problem.

Anyway, I hope that's the problem because it won't post.

Sorry about that.

 

[Boatcarpenter]

Ernie, I've been thinking about what I would try if I had your running too cold problem and today an idea occured to me. With a little research, I'm thinking that you could find a much bigger water pump pulley to install. That would slow the flow and circulate much less water and at a slower volume, which would mean it would stay in the engine longer and thereby get warmer.
Also, if and when the t-stat opened, the flow through the radiator would be reduced also and thereby not cool as much or as rapidly as with full flow.
BC

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Hello BC,

Good Idea --- great concept. Thanks.

 

[houdel]

Ernie - I'd like some specifics about your 24V cooling fan. Much as I'd like to remove my mechancal fan for MPG improvement/noise reduction, I think the combination of no fan and Arctic grille cover may get me running too hot. The electric fan and Arctic grille cover sounds like a very "doable" solution though!

 

[Katch1]

yes the 24v. fan sounds like a very good idea, I would not run a winter front without a fan of some sort either houdel. I use one of those cheap magnetic heaters on my oil pan in the winter. One hour of the mag heater, and a five min. high idle, and then down the road at a reduced rate for a couple miles. Didn't the artic kits also include an insulation kit for the hood to hold in some heat?

 

[DDoyle]

Yep, the bona-fide arctic included an insulated blanket for the hood - and a fuel-fired heater, provision for relocating the batteries, canvas shifter boots to keep cold air out, and a whole host of other goodies.

Best wishes,
David Doyle
West Tennessee

 

[jasonjc]

The arctic kit includesan alcohol evaporator, hardtop , fuel burning personal heater , power plant heater , quilted engine compartment cover , radiator cover , slave receptacle , and thermal barrier.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Hello Lee,

The fan is manufactured by Spal. Go to www.spalusa.com.

I bought a 24 volt #30102540 ... VA18-BP 70/LL-865 fan (16HP)

It's a 16", 2360 CFM fan. I also bought the computerized thermostat.

Good Luck

 

[rdixiemiller]

The end result will be 5" round diamond plate protrusion sticking out of the grill approximately 1/2". It's not a big change but it also ain't standard military.

So, put the bridge plate over it.

 

[houdel]

Since the fan motor will only stick out about 1/2" past the grille, why not grab a little bar stock and make up some extensions to move the grille about 1-1/2 outboard? Properly done and squared up, it wouldn't look very much different than original, certainly better than a 5" diameter hole in the grille.

 

[ken]

I've been thinking of taking a extra fan i have to work and cutting half of the blades off. Then rebalencing it. I think it gets too hot here to use it in the summer. But it might cut down on some of that under hood noise.

 

[jatonka]

Lee, you sure said a mouthfull. You have to be an owner operator or a contractor or just one heck of a common sense guy. John T

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Here are pictures along with the latest rundown on the electric fan project.

First --- Beware ... the radiator isn't centered with the grill on the M35. I centered the fan on the radiator only to find it was about an inch off center when I installed the grill.

The 24V Spal fan info was submitted earlier on this thread.

I started out with a very well painted piece of 1/2" plywood. After cutting it to the dimension of the radiator and then cutting a hole for the fan I split the plywood on the vertical centerline. The plywood had to be split in order for the two sides to slip into the radiator side flanges.

The left and right edges of the plywood had to be beveled on a belt sander so they would slide into the approx 1/2" side flanges of the radiator. also, the radiator side flanges as well as the top corner flange areas had to be puled out a little with a pair of plires. The hole in the plywood for the fan allowed the fan to rest on/mate to the radiator. I purchased a special "fan to radiator" rubber gasket that allows the fan to rest on the radiator without causing damage.

When the fan was bolted to the two pieces of plywood it bacame a very sturdy one-oiece accembly that was locked into the radiator flanges.

I used weird looking 1/4" bolts with thin heads about the dia. of a quarter and the thickness of a dime to bolt the fan to the plywood. They were bolts normally used to secure marine plywood floor decking to a pontoon boat. The thin heads were "set" into the plywood with a large "Power Wagon Hammer" so they wouldn't damage the radiator --- (the heads mate to the radiator). After the bolts were installed, the two plywood pieces were slipped in the radiator slots and then the fan assembly was threaded onto the protruding bolts. Once the "pontoon" bolts were tight everything was rigid.

When we went to install the grill we discovered that the new fan was off center. Instead of using the previously mentioned 5" round stock grill modification we simply elected to shorten a couple of spokes in the grill --- pictures enclosed.

You can't see it very well in the picture but the fan motor protrudes out of the modified grill about 3/8". At a later date I may fabricate a cover for the fan motor cut-out area.

As you can see from the pictures, I also blanked off the horn port opening and the opening for the now removed blackout light

By the time we got this far it was getting late. Tomorrow the old fan comes off --- stay tuned for text drive results.

Note: I've numbered the attahced pictures 1 thru 6 to show the progress of the work. They may show up backwards in this post

 

[jwaller]

I am very anxious to hear if it keeps it cool. please update us asap. I know this will help with mpg's.