Electric Fan on Deuce

[jesusgatos]

can someone please measure the space we have for this, so measure the radiator and how deep it is from the back of the radiator to the back of the current fan.

I'm 3000 miles away from my deuce right now, and am looking online for fans.

One thing to add; be sure to add an electric thermostat to kick the fan on and off. Get better mileage. Costs about $30

I did this mod to my BMW M3 a few years ago it cooled better and gave a few more horses, well worth the upgrade. Al vehicles should have this IMHO.

Here are a few measurements for you.

 

[gaspain]

Here are a few measurements for you.

thanks, but those measurements wont work.

need the square dims of the radiator and how much room deep

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I was finally able to do some hot weather testing on the electric cooling fan and the new, less restrictive fan mount.

After much experimentation I have to say the project was a success AND a failure.

It is a success in that it offers a solution for cold weather slobbering and inability to heat up past 120 degrees in the winter. It is a failure in that the single 2360 CFM 16"/16hp fan isn't quite enough to make me feel comfortable on an 80 degree day.

As previously stated, I'm using a Spal 24 Volt 30102540 VA18-BP70/LL 16" High Performance Push Model --- Straight Blade fan. It is rigged to come on at 195 and off at 175.

On a hot 80 degree day (by Northern Minnesota standards) the fan stays on all the time and temps hover around 195 degrees. In a hill it's easy to get to 200, even 205. This makes me nervious in that I feel I'm sailing a little too close to the wind. I get worried when the needle goes over 200 degrees.

With the current configuration I wouldn't feel comortable pulling a trailer. I had hoped the temps would hover around 180 at 55 MPH with the fan disabled which would indicate that the thermostat is controlling the temp, not the fan.

My solution is to install and run the water pump fan during the summer months and remove it during the winter months. The single Spal fan application does a great job during the winter.

I hope this is helpful.

Since I made the above post I've had a chance to get more familiar with the electric fan. While I still wouldn't want to undertake pulling a heavy load very far on a hot day, the 2360 CFM Spal fan does a good job in Minnesota weather. From a practical standpoint I have to ask, how often is a bobbed deuce, or even a stock deuce, heavily loaded?

I had a parade yesterday in Virginia MN which is approx 45 miles from my residence. After the parade I drove over to Hibbing MN and then back home for a total trip of 130 miles. I should note that the trip included approx 45 minutes of stop and go parade driving.

The weather was in the low 70s and outside of when the truck was idling in the parade the fan never turned on once --- including when I crossed the continental divide in 5th gear at 2,500 RPM. It ran constantly @ 180 degrees which means that natural wind velocity @ 55 to 65 MPH on a low 70 degree day was suffucuent not to need the fan. I'm running a 180 degree thermostat.

My fuel mileage was a little over 10 MPG. Bear in mind that this is with an LDS engine and my foot buried in the pump.

It be fair I've been slowly turning the pump setting down (both the main and droop screw) a little bit at a time since my last post. I have yet to see a power drop as Rosie is still able to keep her hips in the wind in 5th-over.

No doubt the reduced fuel pump settings have relieved some of the workload from the fan

Having said all of this, If I were going to hook to my 18 foot McLander trailer and haul my M37 somewhere in the summer I would feel more comfortable installing the water pump fan for the trip.

The clutch fan mentioned previously would be a much better solution. I constantly worry that some kind of a malfunction will cause the fan not to come on when it is suppose to. It's all automatic but I still worry. I have a tattle-tail light on the dash that somes on when the fan is running.

At idle you can hear the fan which brings up another potential problem. I always make sure horses are not placed directly in front of me in parades. When the fan comes on with it's high pitch whine it spooks the horses.

 

[oddshot]

From a practical standpoint I have to ask, how often is a bobbed deuce, or even a stock deuce, heavily loaded?

True that. Maybe a couple parts, 50 to 100 gallons +/- of WMO. Most times the only load on my truck ... are the long hills here in NoGa.


I had a parade yesterday in Virginia MN which is approx 45 miles from my residence. After the parade I drove over to Hibbing MN and then back home for a total trip of 130 miles. I should note that the trip included approx 45 minutes of stop and go parade driving. The weather was in the low 70s and outside of when the truck was idling in the parade the fan never turned on once --- including when I crossed the continental divide in 5th gear at 2,500 RPM. It ran constantly @ 180 degrees which means that natural wind velocity @ 55 to 65 MPH on a low 70 degree day was suffucuent not to need the fan. I'm running a 180 degree thermostat.

I just made a 280 mile trip ...140 miles with a Deuce Differential in the bed ... coming back was unloaded. 90 degree plus straight through Atlanta in traffic .... the needle never got over 180 + a couple the whole time ... even in stop and go traffic.

Having said all of this, If I were going to hook to my 18 foot McLander trailer and haul my M37 somewhere in the summer I would feel more comfortable installing the water pump fan for the trip.

And a more reliable gauge. I have an old mechanical Oil Pressure/ Water Temp gauge made by Smiths for British cars. It will fit in the dash in the top left corner, right where I can watch it. I know ALL about Lucas ... but, in my experience, these Smith's Gauges have always been reliable.

I like the idea of having those two gauges right close together.

The clutch fan mentioned previously would be a much better solution. I constantly worry that some kind of a malfunction will cause the fan not to come on when it is suppose to. It's all automatic but I still worry. I have a tattle-tail light on the dash that somes on when the fan is running.

I'm thinking I would like to put in an idiot light circuit ... one light for the O/P, W/T, and Fan "on" ... just to catch my attention.

Have you ever had the fan run long enough that it challenged the alternator output and caused a dead battery?

I don't think that it should ... but you seem to have the most experience with this setup.

Is your fan 12 or 24 VDC?

Thank you.

oddshot

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Have you ever had the fan run long enough that it challenged the alternator output and caused a dead battery?

I don't think that it should ... but you seem to have the most experience with this setup.

Is your fan 12 or 24 VDC?

Thank you.

oddshot

The fan I have (a Spal) is 24 volt and if memory serves me right it pulls 11 amps therefore there has never been an alternater/battery problem.

I've changed to all mechanical gauges including a mechanical oil temp gauge. With the removal of the water pump fan I was a little concerned that the oil pressure might get excessive. It doesn't --- it stays just a hair below the water temp.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

One thing I've noticed about the electric fan is when I've installed the water pump fan for tests the force of the water pump fan spins the electric fan and causes the tattle-tale light to light up. The only thing I can figure is that the free spinning fan is working like and generator and is ever so slightly charging the batteries. Go figure

 

[Kohburn]

The clutch fan mentioned previously would be a much better solution. I constantly worry that some kind of a malfunction will cause the fan not to come on when it is suppose to.

fan clutches fail also, my old benz has a viscous clutch fan and the clutch part is $170 when it goes bad.

I plan to convert it to electric also. If you use multiple fans rather than a single fan then it adds a little redundancy to help prevent a total failure.

 

[ProviderDriver]

I'd love to know more info on who else has done this and their results. Since it's been a little while are there better fans out there? I see flex a lite has several 24 volt fans. I'm interested in doing this to mine. Thanks Jim

I work at a speed shop and have access to data on just about every electric fan out there, If someone can get me realistic mountable dimensions, I can figure out what fans, voltages, amperages, and CFM's for an ideal setup.

I need radiator H x W and available depth.

 

[Kohburn]

the hardest part to get around is this

(distance from fan mounting surface (forward) to radiator: 1.75")

I'm following the diablo build and using 3 smaller fans

 

[Kohburn]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...6327-diablo-build-update-pics-rad_007_229.jpg

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...6336-diablo-build-update-pics-rad_008_693.jpg

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...6346-diablo-build-update-pics-rad_009_784.jpg

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...ablo-build-update-pics-cabremount_006_108.jpg

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attach...-build-update-pics-front_ax_005_small_312.jpg

 

[gaspain]

Looks good Kohburn

I personally would prefer one large fan, quieter and more blade surface area so more flow. But if we cant have that, then yours fits best

 

[Kohburn]

that's not mine - thats the diablo and has proven to work. If i remember right he had 2 fans to run for regular cooling and the 3rd came on with the A/C

mine will be done the same way though.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

that's not mine - thats the diablo and has proven to work. If i remember right he had 2 fans to run for regular cooling and the 3rd came on with the A/C

mine will be done the same way though.

Good move

I think Devilman (diablo) got it as close to perfect as it can get

 

[andytk5]

I would suggest trying a fan or two from a Lincoln Mark VIII. They are great fans and move a lot of air. I have two on my Dodge cummins and have been very happy. So much better than the stock fan.

When my EUC clears this is among the top parts I have waiting. I used this on my ram Hemi since it outflowed almost all the single aftermarket fans and I only use it on the "low" setting. It makes some noise but its quieter than my smaller condensor fan when it kicks on.

There is a "high" setting that is a tornado but draws some amps.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlIFw0laZ8[/media]

Here's some vids, one showing hi/low another with amps.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnLKl9NN9Yg[/media]

low setting..
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJFzAMsIlc&feature=related[/media]

tempest guy with it in the car and showing temp drop after its hot and fan kicked on.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eBlhyNXk8M&feature=related[/media]

It's an 18" fan. Estimates of CFM are between 4300-5500. Draws 42amps on HIGH speed, Low speed is around 28-30amps. It is 1100 rpm in slow, 1850 rpm in fast.

The shroud measures (last I checked) 19" high. It measures 22" across.

I used a cheap controller from Advanced, that kicks on and off, have a 195 thermostat, had a 180 and that was better but "dummy" light kept kicking on..

Hope this helps

 

[plym49]

I agree that 2 or even 3 smaller fans would be more effective than the one larger one. You would also gain flexibility by staging them.

If you set the cut-in temp for the fans too low, then they are just running but the thermostat will close to restrict water flow to maintain 180. So there is usually no reason to have the fans cut in much below the thermostat setting. On my DD (not a Deuce) I run a 195 'stat and the fans (2 of them) are set somewhere between 197 and 200.

You can also add some supplementary cooling capability, although this might be in science experiment territory. Tee into the heater plumbing and add some radiators/heat exchangers underneath the vehicle. Should be room to tuck them up safely and some highway air flow, too. You could use ball valves to select between winter (heater core) and summer (extra cooling) modes.

 

[TreadLite]

A couple thoughts:

• A fan shroud is vital to keep the air flowing where you want it to. Other wise it often likes the path of least resistance (like me)
• At the race shop I used to work at, we ran Redline Water Wetter in the cooling systems. In dyno tests, we found it dropped the temp about 5-7 degrees on a small block Chevy making 475hp. May be an option to give you that little buffer you are looking for. (FYI - I have no affiliation with Redline and don't work for them or sell their products, but I do use them and like them). I haven't tried it in my Deuce since I'm in Alaska and don't usually need to cool things down.
• Running an electric fan will increase the HP and probably mileage but I think its worth mentioning that it does take power to run an electric fan. There will be an increased load on the electrical system which will increase the load on the engine which will use more fuel. Unfortunately there's no free lunch...
• Stay cool!

 

[plym49]

A couple thoughts:

• A fan shroud is vital to keep the air flowing where you want it to. Other wise it often likes the path of least resistance (like me)
• At the race shop I used to work at, we ran Redline Water Wetter in the cooling systems. In dyno tests, we found it dropped the temp about 5-7 degrees on a small block Chevy making 475hp. May be an option to give you that little buffer you are looking for. (FYI - I have no affiliation with Redline and don't work for them or sell their products, but I do use them and like them). I haven't tried it in my Deuce since I'm in Alaska and don't usually need to cool things down.
• Running an electric fan will increase the HP and probably mileage but I think its worth mentioning that it does take power to run an electric fan. There will be an increased load on the electrical system which will increase the load on the engine which will use more fuel. Unfortunately there's no free lunch...
• Stay cool!

If you need Water Wetter to keep things cool, then you are really at the hairy edge - OK for a race car but not as much for a Deuce. (BTW, a small amount of liquid dishwashing detergent works as well as WW, and costs a lot less.)

Shrouds can be very important. With an electric puller, you can shroud it so all of the air goes through the core and then through the fan. That way all of the core sees cooling air.

With a pusher it is not as easy to do the shroud thing. Another reason why 2 or 3 small pushers can be better than one big one - you are forcing air through more of the core area.

I'm glad you brought that up about the power cost. Many do not understand this and just think that an electric produces power savings. When an electric fan is off, which might be half the year in a cooler climate, it indeed saves fuel/HP. But when it kicks in, it usually costs more since there are more parasitic losses in driving a dynamo to generate electricity to run an electric motor, compared to simply directly driving a vee belt and pulley. So if you live in AZ where I hear it is always hot as blazes, you will save fuel with a mechanical fan. In cooler climates, that relationship flips.

 

[paramedic7831]

Yeah, I was going to say relocate it too. I have had alot of buddys who tried the pusher and it didn't work. When they moved it to a puller, it cooled just fine.

Only push type I have ever seen are on slow moving equipment like farm tractors, bulldozer, bobcats, excavators. Im guessing because going down the road It would not be efficient pushing air against the air already coming in.

 

[andytk5]

Any more progress on modifying the water pump pulley to create more room? I have the fan coming as well as picking up my 12V 100amp si alternator to run A/C, compressor, cooling fan, and prob install a buss in the cab to branch off for small accessories.

I thought about moving the radiator an inch or two forward but seems like a real pain with those 2 lower mounting bolts. The top brackets seem easy enough. You could use longer bolts with tubular spacers to push it away from the motor.

 

[quickfarms]

Interesting