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Engine block cracked

123mack

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Jemison, AL
I've seen tractor engines repaired as WillWagner describes, only using a 5/16 bolt instead of the cast iron plugs. It's a method frequently mentioned on old tractor forums. For a short crack luike yours, it might the best remedy.
 

chemicaljohn

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Laporte, IN
Here's the crack. I had just cleaned everything up a half hour before this. My guess is the crack is smaller than the spot
in the pic. You can't see it, but maybe with a magnifier. My plan is to drain the coolant and use fluorescent penetrant with
a black light to find the ends of it. Other than that, i'll have to decide on a repair. Welding sounds better.... all I have is a
small MIG. I know a few people that know how to weld, how well they could do this, I don't know.

If anyone knows what is immediately behind this area, please let me know. I'm guessing only a water jacket. Nothing has been mixing (oil/coolant).

Anyone ever had any experience with these stitching pins I find when I google "engine block repair"? www.locknstitch.com
 

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flyxpl

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Chatham IL
nice truck , I would not mig it . Either tig weld it or use a torch . Being cast make sure it is preheated . As wreckerman suggested you need an old school welder .
 

123mack

Member
861
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Location
Jemison, AL
+1 on what wreckerman said. In welding or brazing cast iron, propper preheat and post weld treatment is critical. I've seen where people haveignored proper procedure, and cracks formed around the weld, resulting in a hole.
The product described in the previous post appears to be an adaptation of what WillWagner and I have referred to. Cold metal stitching required on the engine block shows a Dodge block repaired by this method. The third photo shows he had a number of cracks. Lots of good reading on that site. So, bottom line, if it were mine, I'd do the stitching method with it still in the truck.
 

wreckerman893

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Not an expert guys but I am pretty sure they make engine blocks out of cast steel, not cast iron:neutral: A whole different animal?
It is still a cast metal.....and behaves differently than cold rolled steel.

I have welded cast iron manifolds and cast steel blocks....you still had to do pre and post welding treatment to keep down deformation or cracking.
 
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chemicaljohn

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Laporte, IN
+1 on what wreckerman said. In welding or brazing cast iron, propper preheat and post weld treatment is critical. I've seen where people haveignored proper procedure, and cracks formed around the weld, resulting in a hole.
The product described in the previous post appears to be an adaptation of what WillWagner and I have referred to. Cold metal stitching required on the engine block shows a Dodge block repaired by this method. The third photo shows he had a number of cracks. Lots of good reading on that site. So, bottom line, if it were mine, I'd do the stitching method with it still in the truck.
I'm going to read more on the stitching on that website and maybe get in contact with them, see what I need and how much $$.

If anyone has ripped apart one of these motors , the thickness of the area where my crack is will come in handy , even an educated guess.
 

CatMan

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Denmark Wisconsin USA
Block repairs

Chem John,

Yes I have experiance with all the methods that have been discussed.

The unbreakable law of business (And Automotive Repair) says you have three options: "Fix it good" , "Fix it cheap" or Fix it fast" Unfortunatly you can only pick two of the three. If you try the "Fast and Cheap" it will not be good. Good and fast will not be cheap and finally "good and cheap" can't be done fast.

So, here is what I (as a professional large engine and machinery repair advisor) would recommend.

First, since the truck is not required for daily family transportation, take some time to investigate the options and research a repair plan.

1) Forget the "stop leak" option, It is fast and cheap but as others have said "not good for the other engine parts. It is an option for small automotive engines, in an emergency in the middle of now where as a last resort to get you home (or finish the job) and then get another engine fix.

2) Don't use the Non Metalic "Smear it on, goop it up fix". Products like JB weld in the right applications can and do work very well. This is not one of them. Again fast and cheap but not good. You can't get it clean enough and you will make it worse when you have to remove it to try something else.

3a) Welding your crack "in place" (in the truck) with the engine assemblied is not a good option. The first rule of repair welding is to keep the filler material as close to the base metal as possible. Again there are some excellent speciallty filler materials but they work best in dry, cleaned, prepared and preheated industrial machinery repairs. There is no way to clean and properly preheat that wet vertical engine block in the truck.

3b) Welding a very rare "last one on the planet" block casting to save it could be tempting but the engine must be disassembled, a brick block oven built, big enough to enclose it. Build a fire and preheat the whole block to about 1100 F before welding (about two days heating), weld it, then cover the whole thing with dry sand and let it cool for 3 or 4 days. Not cheap and not fast. Good

4) Swap engines. This model engine is common. To fix the cracked engine
will require engine removal from the truck. So R &I is a given cost either way. If you can take your time, find a deal (not "fast" but good and cheap) that may be a viable option.

5) Replace the cylinder block only. Lots of labor cost. Not fast and probably not cheap but a "Good" repair. Not an option I would consider. Save it for spare parts.

6) Pinning and peening. This is a viable method. It is used in large machinery and has been used for many years. Not criticle to have the block chemicly clean. Pinning cracked cylinder heads was a very common repair on large engine castings. It is not done as much on small automotive jobs and so not as well understood because a new part is cheaper and more available than the skilled labor to repair pin it. Recent improvements in the pin kit items make them even better than years ago. It is "cheap and it is good" but it is not a "Fast" fix. With fender and covers removed you could attempt it in the chassis, I would not. Take the engine out, remove the turbo and piping, lay the engine over so you can work "down hand".

I would attack it this way. Park the truck. Read up on metal stiching and price out the kits. Go to a junk yard and get a junk engine block, hit it with a hammer so you have a project to practice on. Learn to install the pins. See if you like it. If you really want to try special welding rods, flip you practice block over and try heatin and weldin too. Practice and see what works and what you like.

Then remove the engine from your truck and make the repair that you are now skilled at - (pins and peening I hope). It was broken when you started, if you take your time and do a good job and the problem is solved. Reinstall the repaired engine into your truck. If not look for another engine. Remember, this is a hobby, try and fix it first and then if you have to, find a complete engine.

Fix it and then brag like **** to everyone here.

You can do it soldier!

Cat Man
 

kbush

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Alamosa, CO
Polaris AAA rod will weld that real nicely. Used it to weld cracks on 1920's steam locomotives cylinders with very good results.
 

barrygar8

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white house tn.
if it is not a every day driver and the leak is not that bad I would check my water before my trips put a can of water on the truck and go have a good time till it got a lot worse than it looks now i have seen cracks tried to be repaired and end up with a bad leak and some times it will rust up and stop the leak.
 

m16ty

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I'm sure your head is spinning now from all the suggestions :D. Some are better than others but most will work to some degree.

If it were my truck. I'd just swap the engine with a good one. Mutifuels are cheap as dirt as far as diesels go. I've got a good running takeout for sale for $700 and I'm sure you can find similar deals in your area. IMO that would be the best fix. If you're not able or willing to go that far I'd just clean it the best I could and try some JB weld. JB weld may or may not stop the leak but if you just want to stop the leak until you can find another engine it could very well "get you by".
 

cyamaha2007

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Location
Warrenton Mo
Ive welded a few tractor blocks with cracks with a lincoln buzz box with a stainless steel rod. Ive also used jb weld. I think that i would drain it grind it clean it and try jb weld. I fixed a 454 block with a crack near the freeze plug like this and it doesnt leak a drop after 4 or 5 years. And its in one of our combines so i trust it.
 

chemicaljohn

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Laporte, IN
I appreciate everyone's info on this. Here's kind of what I'm coming too....

Welding- to do it right the engine needs tore apart and the block heated separately and uniformly. It sounds more like a good chance of having a hole in the block while I'm going down the highway if it gets done wrong, and a big towing bill.

Stop leak in the motor- could work, could not, may take a few tries and who knows how long it'll last. Plus the chance of screwing with other parts of the motor.

JB Weld- Like CatMan said, it has it's applications and this isn't one of them.

In my experience working on aircraft for 11 years (lots of stuff can crack), cracks don't stop. They have to at a minimum be stop drilled (temp repair) or cut out and patched. I don't want to cover it up, know its there, then it's 3x as big one day.

I'm going to look some more into the stitching repair, maybe try on a junk block like CatMan brought up and see what happens. I'll either get good at that or good at replacing engines. With all the temp fixes, I think I'll have to change the motor eventually anyway and with welding, I may as well change it with all the removal and tear down it would entail to do it right.
 

nhdiesel

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Just FYI, the blocks I've welded have been IN vehicle, just heat the area well before to burn off any contaminants, grind, clean with Brake cleaner, then weld. Considering I didn't have any leak after, I wouldn't call them temporary repairs...and one was over 10" long, running from one freeze plug, through another, to a third. With the little crack you have, you should be able to weld that easily without much heat, and have a quality repair. With the location that is cracked, you don't need to worry about a structural repair, just a good seal.

Jim
 

KaiserM109

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After thinking about your problem last night I logged in early to chime in, but everything I was going to say got said.

I want to second what nhdiesel has said. I have seen farm tractors repaired permanently that way. The only thing I might add is go a little past where you think the crack ends to drill. You can only see one side and it might be longer on the inside.

The location of the crack is probably the easiest place to work on it, so go for it.

Good luck. If it doesn't work, I need a few parts.

Arlyn


Arlyn
 

jamesfrom180

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Depending on the overall access available to you I would go with ernieflash. Process he laid out is identical to resetting a heal on an anvil. Anvils generally have low carbon work surfaces and higher carbon bodies. Di-similar metals and alot of work hardening and work alone will crack an anvil. I have seen repairs done with welding that have lasted 30 years. Go to you local rental place and see if they have a arc welder. Make sure its a DC style and get the rods. Definitely releave (drill) the crack and learn about heating and cooling. Practice alittle then clean, clean, clean, and clean again. Make sure your last wire brush is a SS or the lead or whatever softer metal in the alloy will contaminate your weld. THEN GO FOR IT. JMHO Take pics and post.
 

chemicaljohn

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Laporte, IN
While I'm off the next few day I'm gonna look more into stitching and talk to some friends about welding. I don't have an arc
welder or torch, but can get them. Either way I'll have to practice on a block from a junk yard first, I don't weld much at all.
Whatever I do, I'll post pics when I'm done. I'll either learn how to do something new or how not to do it.
 
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