Engine replacement for MAN KAT 6x6

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Zai

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Hi everyone. I am looking for any information on replacing an engine of a MAN KAT 1 6x6. The current engine is causing so many issues and needs replacing, however I am struggling to determine what possible engines can replace the existing one without needing to replace the whole gearbox as well. The gearbox is a ZF Transmatic 400.
 

wreckerman893

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Lots more info needed.

Where are you located?

What engines are available in your area that would be a cost effective replacement?

The bell housing size and configuration will determine if there is a drop in replacement option.

Going from an air cooled V configuration to a water cooled in line six could be problematic for instance.
 

Zai

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I am located in South Africa, however the truck will be in America when the engine replacement will be done. The truck will be in Orlando, Florida to start off with and will move around a lot so can engine replacement can happen in a variety of states.

Because I am not entirely sure where it will be replaced I can't say what is available.

We are currently looking to replace with a water cooled system, however at this stage we are mostly looking for compatibility and seeing what our options are.

To give you an idea, we stripped the MAN KAT down to it's drive train and completely rebuilt a custom vehicle (see https://www.facebook.com/zaitruck/ for the facebook page of the truck). Because we have modified the whole truck we are not afraid of modifying mounting points. What we would like to avoid is having to replace the gearbox as well as the engine. My team however doesn't have the knowledge to know what engines are available (in general - not only in specific areas) that can work with the gearbox...

Any information is helpful at this stage.
 

NDT

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Looking a pictures of the transmission on Google images, it would appear that the ZF has some form of DIN German bellhousing. Truck engines made in the US have what is called a SAE bellhousing which is non-metric. I suspect you will have trouble mating the SAE bellhousing with a DIN transmission. Options might be a modern German truck engine such as Mercedes (which is not available in the US), a custom machined bellhousing to adapt a widely available Cummins ISX engine, or rebuild the stock MAN engine.
 

JDToumanian

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What issues is the engine having? Is it just worn out? Those air-cooled MAN engines have been around for a long time and are known to be reliable. Unless it's a desert climate overheating issue, if it were mine I would replace it with an identical new engine.

Jon
 

Zai

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The engine is very old and has been overhauled and then constantly repaired along the truck's journey. It has now gotten to a point where it is consuming massive amounts of oil. It also produces a very heavy thick black smoke when driven and nothing reduces this. Due to emission regulations we have determined that it needs to be replaced. It also uses large amounts of fuel and in the long run it will be more cost effective to replace the engine completely.

Thanks for the info NDT. We have been looking at replacing the engine with a Cummins diesel engine and pairing it with an Allison gearbox. However, how does determine which is the best gearbox to use and how to you calculate the torque for the gearbox.
 

NDT

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What does the entire truck weigh presently? That will determine what Cummins engine will be best suited. Also, is the transfer case attached to the transmission as in the online Transmatic pictures? Not many Allison transmissions are set up like that, most drive a stand alone transfer case made by a different manufacturer.
 

Zai

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The truck weighs roughly 18tons. That is with full load as it is not used to transport heavy loads. The transfer case appears to be completely attached to the transmission. Are there better transmission to use instead of Allison? Possibly Eaton ones?
DSCF0703.jpgDSCF0635.jpgDSCF0650.jpg
 

red

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Eaton Fuller makes manual transmissions, Allison makes auto transmissions. Both are good choices just depends on which type of trans is wanted. Eaton does make a remote shift cover for their transmissions that is required in a cab over/cab before engine truck. For a transfercase either a T138 or a T1138 from the military 5 tons here can be used.

Going off of the pics and a little bit of internet searching looks like the common class 8 truck engines/transmissions will fit and be the right size (10 liter up to 15 liter engines). Cummins, CAT, and Detroit are the 3 common engine manufacturers here. Budget and preference will determine which engine to go with but common ones are:
Cummins-855 series, ISX, M11.
CAT-3406, 6nz, C12, C15
Detroit-60 series

As far as the trans/tcase goes, need a measurement from the front of the engine to the end of the tcase, and another measurement from the back of the tcase to that first crossmember on the frame to find out how much room is available. Contact ZF and find out if they make a SAE bellhousing since that would be the easiest option, or Cummins/CAT are used worldwide so they probably make adapter housings.
 

NDT

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Red you just saved me a lot of typing. Only thing I can add is, nearly all engines and automatics manufactured since the 90's are electronic control. It may be advantageous to purchase a wrecked entire truck with the desired powetrain in order to be able to harvest the needed electrical harnesses and dashboard controls.
 

snowtrac nome

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I personally would recommend staying away from electronic engines if you are taking this truck someplace you don't have dealership support. I'm not afraid of the electronic engines I even have most of the software packages on my laptop. I live in a remote part of the world and It can be a challenge to get support up here can be very expensive. I believe a good reman mechanical cat cummins or Detroit would serve you well. On a side note you were talking about taking it to Africa if that's the case I might also suggest a perkins MB or deutz. with a matching transmission. as for transmissions an hd series Allison would be a great non electronic option the 3000 series allisons are also pretty reliable I like the 7155 but would recommend against one as they are rare and parts are going to be hard to come by. what ever engine you choose get a turbo model it will require less cooling capacity.
 

Zai

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MAN Kat 6x6 parts needed ASAP!!!

Hi

My company truck has had some mechanical issues and is stuck in Baltimore, MD. It urgently requires the following parts for Magirus Deutz V10 Air Cooled no 7787902 type F10L413F.- Flywheel, number on part R6635. It was machined in June 2016.- Pressure plate, number on part 142-005 or SA ref (South Africa) no LUK 8156.- Clutch Disk 420mm diameter 45 x 10, Spline number on part C420001 or SA ref no 61014.

The original vehicle was a MAN Kat 6x6 vehicle, hence the Magirus Deutz engine. It is quite old and really struggling to find these parts. We will order them from other parts of USA as long as the delivery time iss not tto long as the truck needs to get to Florida by 5 March.

Please help if you can... and thanks in advance.
 

Zai

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Parts Needed ASAP!!!

Hi, I know this is for parts found but I am quite desparate here and considering I will not find new parts I am looking for I figure salvage is the best bet. Below is a list of parts I need as my company vehicle has gotten stuck in Baltimore MD and urgently requires the following parts for Magirus Deutz V10 Air Cooled (no 7787902 type F10L413F) to continue its journey.- Flywheel, number on part R6635. It was machined in June 2016.- Pressure plate, number on part 142-005 or SA ref (South Africa) no LUK 8156.- Clutch Disk 420mm diameter 45 x 10, Spline number on part C420001 or SA ref no 61014.

The original vehicle was a MAN Kat 6x6 vehicle, hence the Magirus Deutz engine. It is quite old and really struggling to find these parts. We will order them from other parts of USA as long as the delivery time is not too long as the truck needs to get to Florida by 5 March.

Please help if you can... and thanks in advance.
 

Zai

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Cape Town
Parts urgently needed!!! ASAP!! Please help.

Hi, I know this not really the right place to post this however I am trying my luck anywhere and everywhere. Below is a list of parts I need as my company vehicle (custom vehicle built over a MAN Kat 6x6 chassis) has gotten stuck in Baltimore MD and urgently requires the following parts for Magirus Deutz V10 Air Cooled (no 7787902 type F10L413F) to continue its journey.- Flywheel, number on part R6635. It was machined in June 2016.- Pressure plate, number on part 142-005 or SA ref (South Africa) no LUK 8156.- Clutch Disk 420mm diameter 45 x 10, Spline number on part C420001 or SA ref no 61014.

The original vehicle was a MAN Kat 6x6, hence the Magirus Deutz engine. It is quite old and really struggling to find these parts (new and used seems to be impossible to find). We will order them from other parts of USA as long as the delivery time is not too long as the truck needs to get to Florida by 5 March.

Please help if you can... and thanks in advance.
 

doghead

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I've merged your 3 new threads with your original thread on this topic.

Do NOT start multiple threads on the same topic and do not post duplicate threads in more than one forum.
 

NDT

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Zai, looking for V10 Deutz engine parts in the United States will be a exercise in futility. Except for a few imported cranes, this engine was not used here at all. You need to look in Europe.
 

porkysplace

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Zai, looking for V10 Deutz engine parts in the United States will be a exercise in futility. Except for a few imported cranes, this engine was not used here at all. You need to look in Europe.
Even the common small Deutz engines can be slow to get parts for . I had a Case/Vibromax asphalt roller with a 1 cylinder and it usually to a couple weeks or more to get parts .
 

Howlin Mad Murdock

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I doubt it's much of a help at this point but I happen to be aware of an engine that might work. I have a friend in Oregon that has a bunch of equipment and in the back of his shop, there is a v10 Deutz that I believe is rebuilt. It at least has a fresh clean and paint job if nothing else. Complete and ready to run as far as I know.
 
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