Explain to me why HMMWVs are not surplus'd out to JQ Public

[CanonNinja]

Google didn't yield much of anything, just looked. Is this in line with the Clinton Exec. Order over surplus goods like USGI ammunitions?

 

[clinto]

RE: Explain to me why HMMWVs are not surplus

No, this has nothing to do with Clinto Administration policies, imho.

I seem to remember the official line being something to the effect that they do not meet DOT guidelines for side impact protection............

However, the realist in me says it might have something to do with AM General not wanting competition with their highly overpriced civilian H1's.....................

 

[BKinzey]

Affecting Civy Hummer sales is what I have heard as well.

 

[N1265]

In addition to the above reasons... I heard that it was because of DOT regulations of the shifting pattern on the HMMWVs auto transmission not being the same as all the other civ. cars and trucks. ( P R N D 1 2 )

I know this sounds silly, witch is all the more reason to believe that it is true.

 

[wreckerman893]

It might also have something to do with the suspension on the military HUMVEEs.
I have seen several HUMVEEs rolled over. It is against Army regulations to operate a HUMVEE (or any tactical vehicle) without wearing a Kevlar helmet.

The old M151's were independent suspension.
If you got stupid with them they would roll over and mash you flat. Right before they went out of the inventory they were all equipped with a full roll cage.
They were sold as surplus but you had to dismantle them and leave the pan cut in four pieces at DRMO.

Just my rambling thoughts.

 

[Hookin1]

This was a long drawn out deal back when the hmmwv's where auctioned off.There was an owner trying to register his new surplus purchase,but the state inspector would not pass it due to the fact that as usual for military vehicles that have been rebuilt,the numbers don't match.which came about because the inspector would not except the dash tag because it was screwed to the dash.the frame number did'nt match the tag or the engine number so he would'nt pass it. Now the owner sent a letter to the drmo to try to get this straightened out,who forwarded it to the army which in turn sent it to AMG.AMG response was this vehicle is not designed for public use.As there is no crash protection,side impact protection,or roll over protection.They sent this letter to the army,the drmo,and the state in question.needless to say after the lawsuits over the army jeeps that the army had to go though they decided not to sell them anymore as a complete vehicle.Now all hmmwv's are sent to be rebuilt at depot's.

AMG's decision was bases on the fact that they sell the civilian model,and did not want to lose there sales to the military surplus market.My opinion is that they shot thee selves in the foot with that one due to the fact that they make more money selling the to the army than they do in the civi market,so you would think that letting the army sell them and replace them would be more profitable.....but oh well

 

[jwaller]

I have also heard that they are too wide for public roads. course so are the H1's. anybody heard this?

 

[Jimmy]

I haven't heard that one, mine is more narrow than my F-550 and easier to get around. Who really knows why our government does what it does?

 

[maddawg308]

If the true reason is the H1 sales issue, I wonder if we will somehow be able to change the AMG's/government's position on this now that the H1 isn't made anymore for civilian sales. After all, some industrious people are building HMMWVs out of spare parts anyways, we're just saving everyone a lot of time and effort...

 

[mcinfantry]

This was a long drawn out deal back when the hmmwv's where auctioned off.There was an owner trying to register his new surplus purchase,but the state inspector would not pass it due to the fact that as usual for military vehicles that have been rebuilt,the numbers don't match.which came about because the inspector would not except the dash tag because it was screwed to the dash.the frame number did'nt match the tag or the engine number so he would'nt pass it. Now the owner sent a letter to the drmo to try to get this straightened out,who forwarded it to the army which in turn sent it to AMG.AMG response was this vehicle is not designed for public use.As there is no crash protection,side impact protection,or roll over protection.They sent this letter to the army,the drmo,and the state in question.needless to say after the lawsuits over the army jeeps that the army had to go though they decided not to sell them anymore as a complete vehicle.Now all hmmwv's are sent to be rebuilt at depot's.

AMG's decision was bases on the fact that they sell the civilian model,and did not want to lose there sales to the military surplus market.My opinion is that they shot thee selves in the foot with that one due to the fact that they make more money selling the to the army than they do in the civi market,so you would think that letting the army sell them and replace them would be more profitable.....but oh well

im in no way being arguementative, im only curious

in indiana, they actually have a means to check the vehicle engine VIN against the frame VIN against the body VIN? i have done plenty of vehicle inspections for cars in louisiana and i am aware the dash vin SHOULD match the frame, but i never could figure out the ENGINE matching.

can you tell me what side, rollover and crash protection is diferent on a 1992 military and or civilian hummer? i wasnt aware of any.

it sure is easy for people to register, insure and operate all the m151's that everyone said roll-over easy and are not DOT approved.

 

[Elwenil]

Straight from Am General: http://www.amgeneral.com/corporate_faqs.php#6

Can the public purchase military Humvees?
No. The Humvee was designed for a military mission and was not designed to meet civilian safety standards. AM General does not endorse nor support the sale of these military vehicles to the general public or private entities. AM General further opposes any use of these military vehicles by individuals or entities outside of the military context for which the vehicles are designed. AM General does not sell the military vehicle or service parts for the military vehicle to the general public.

Can the public purchase parts for Humvees or other military vehicles manufactured by AM General?
No, these parts, as well as service information, are available only to military customers. Occasionally these vehicles wind up in civilian hands. However, AM General does not support these vehicles when they are in civilian ownership.

What's the difference between a HUMMER® and a Humvee®?
The Humvee is the military vehicle. The HUMMER (H1) is the civilian version based on the Humvee. It is much the same as a Humvee, but “civilianized.” Since it contains basically the same powertrain and other components found in the Humvee, the HUMMER remains in a category by itself. It is a Class III truck, not an SUV. For exact comparison of the military Humvee and the civilian HUMMER H1, see comparison chart. Also for further information, check out the HUMMER and Humvee for detailed information about the vehicles.

Also more stuff on Olive-Drab: http://www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_register.php3

Scroll down to almost the bottom. And a link to the letter sent from AM General to the State of Connecticut DMV concerning registering the HMMWV: http://www.olive-drab.com/images/AMG_letter000314.jpg

(I linked the image since to shrink it to 640 would make it unreadable)

 

[mcinfantry]

col, thanks. but you have to look at what year side impact was FORCED into american cars. notice i said a 1992 hmmwv vs h1, not a 2006 vs hmmwv. ill try and get some more info.

 

[Elwenil]

Yeah, personally I think the whole thing is fishy. I tend to agree with the idea that AM General just doesn't want to hurt it's sales of the civilian model, and I have to wonder if GM didn't add a little pressure to them since they market the Hummer®. They could lose profits from the sale of the military version since they only market the Hummers® and do not produce them since they don't own AM General as many believe. I dug around in all this mess for a while researching the issues I was having registering my M715, which ordinarily would be easy, but the Virginia DMV is full of idiots and look at you like you have a dead rat stapled to your forehead when you say "military truck".

 

[maddawg308]

All this side impact junk is garbage. No wonder the American car makers are going out of business and posting record losses in sales. We can't afford the cars due to all the stupid crap that the auto makers have to be in compliance with just to satisfy the bureaucrats in DC, so the prices of the cars go above and beyond what most Americans can afford to pay anymore.

Tell you what - I'd much rather be involved in a side impact collision in a HMMWV or a 1956 Buick than, say, a 2006 Honda.

If you guys find any more dirt on HMMWV surplus, let us know.

 

[mcinfantry]

im accident reconstruction certified and ill ALWAYS take mass over impact/crash safety in a lighter vehicle.

 

[Jimmy]

I have owned an H1 and a HMMWV and they are the same except for creature comforts. They are supposed to start selling the Alphas again in the near future but who knows. I would rather be in an accident in either of those than most midsized cars.

 

[dilvoy]

After the first couple of years of hearing Hummer owners complain of too little front leg room, AMG chopped out the brace, that extended from B pillar to B pillar, behind each of the front seats. I think that greatly affected side impact protection, but it probably diden't hurt much, as the passengers are basically up against the doors anyway so even a minor hit on the side will have the passenger impacted very quickly. It's suprising that there are no steel reinforcement beams in the Hummer doors, like my "70 dodge challenger has. I guess the Class Three Truck classification, let AMG get by on many actual safety items, but the door latches and strikers are better than on the Humvee. Less chance of a door popping open if the body is bent up.