FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[glcaines]

Is it possible that the control arm was bent, making it slightly shorter and this is why the holes don't line up? If so, when the control arm was bent that may be what caused the bolt to shear off.

 

[rtrask]

Is it possible that the control arm was bent, making it slightly shorter and this is why the holes don't line up? If so, when the control arm was bent that may be what caused the bolt to shear off.

It's not bent as far as I can tell. For sure it's not bent enough to make it that short. There is no sign the control arm had fallen down and drug. For sure that would have bent it if it had. There was a stub of the bolt still in the bracket that I suspect held it in place until it was parked.

I did not mention it in the previous post, but the hole in the mounting bracket the bolt goes through was kind of wallowed out. It had been working back and forth for a while. I was using the front end loader to scrape weeds off disturbed soil. While doing that I ran into an occasional rock, and I suspect that is what caused it to shear off.

 

[The FLU farm]

If the rod hasn't changed length, move the chassis over to make the holes line up.

 

[rtrask]

If the rod hasn't changed length, move the chassis over to make the holes line up.

OK, I guess my question is how do I move the Chassis over, and what caused it to change. I have been searching for any information on the threaded bar that looks like it could spread the frame out, but have not found it in either manual or the parts manual. Does anyone know what it is called?

 

[The FLU farm]

If I'm thinking about the correct part it's the Panhard rod. Without it the axle can move laterally somewhat freely.

You could try using a winch, even a very small hand powered one, or it might work to turn the steering until things line up. The latter would be quicker if you can have someone turn the wheel for you.

 

[Another Ahab]

Hi everyone, it has been a long time.

I have been using my SEE a fair amount lately. The bolt that attaches the front control arm sheered off for some reason. I bought a replacement bolt, but the control arm is too long for the holes to line up. The manual doesn't help, it basically just says put the bolts in and torque them.

View attachment 952657

It's off by probably 5 mm or so. I can get a punch in the hole but can't get it to line up. There is a threaded rod above it that I could try to screw it out, but I am afraid to screw with that, and I'm not sure there is enough travel. I have not found any guidance on that. If I do adjust that, should I leave it wide, or adjust it back to where it was. Any ideas are appreciated.

THE quintessential SEE-Whisperer here is hands-down:

- The FLU farm

Likely he will have an idea for you, rtrask, with his next visit to the site...

 

[Another Ahab]

THE quintessential SEE-Whisperer here is hands-down:

- The FLU farm

Likely he will have an idea for you, rtrask, with his next visit to the site...

Ooops, I was slow on the draw. Not the first time.

 

[rtrask]

Well, a winch is the wrong solution, as I need to spread it a bit. I have been thinking about cutting a 4x4 to length and using a bottle jack to spread it out a bit. I am pretty sure the threaded rod is not a panhard. It goes from one of the Chassis rails to the other and does not connect to the axle. See the picture.



I think that the threaded rod adjustment may be the way to go. The picture is not too clear. I think I can just remove the outer nuts and then screw the inner nuts out to force the rails outward till the control arm fits. Then I think I should leave the width alone and put the outer nuts on to lock it in place. I am not sure that this is the right procedure but unless someone has a better idea that's likely what I will do.

I think I have another issue though. I think the right front wheel is towed in. Take a look, I am not sure you can tell by the picture.

 

[The FLU farm]

Alright, I need to take a peek under a FLU and see what rod you're talking about here. Not a Panhard rod, and not a control arm from what I can tell.

The easier task is setting the toe-in. It automatically evens out between the two tires, so don't worry about the right or left tire, but adjust whichever side centers the steering wheel. If the toe is off in the first place that is. Measure it before adjusting anything.

 

[The FLU farm]

Finally remembered to look, now guessing that it's the lateral rod right above the Panhard rod. Even though you posted an illustration of the Panhard rod.

Oops, reread your post and it seems it's actually the Panhard rod after all (or control arm as they for some odd reason call it) you can't get a bolt through.
If so we're right back to using a winch. Don't overlook that you can move the chassis relative to the axle in either direction, depending on what you hook the winch to. Or try using the steering to shift the axle side to side.

Leave the threaded rod above alone, but I'd probably get new bushings for the Panhard rod before bolting it in if it's been run loose for a while. Although, it's almost more likely that the holes in the bracket took offense and the bushing survived.

 

[rtrask]

Alright, I need to take a peek under a FLU and see what rod you're talking about here. Not a Panhard rod, and not a control arm from what I can tell.

You don't need to bother with crawling under a FLU unless you are just curious. I backed off the outer nut and with the help of PB Blaster and a 2' cheater I was able to spread the Chassis Rails enough to install the control arm. I think that is the purpose of the threaded rod, because it has really fine thread for the diameter of the rod. I think my FLU may have had issues with the control arm in the past. I told you the hole the bolt goes through was wallowed out. It looks to me like someone has welded some additional material on the bracket to reinforce it, and that material shows a lot of wear too.

The easier task is setting the toe-in. It automatically evens out between the two tires, so don't worry about the right or left tire, but adjust whichever side centers the steering wheel. If the toe is off in the first place that is. Measure it before adjusting anything.

I do think the front tires have excessive toe in, but my FLU will not be going on the highway anytime soon. It should be fine around my property till I can figure it out.

 

[rtrask]

Finally remembered to look, now guessing that it's the lateral rod right above the Panhard rod. Even though you posted an illustration of the Panhard rod.

Oops, reread your post and it seems it's actually the Panhard rod after all (or control arm as they for some odd reason call it) you can't get a bolt through.
If so we're right back to using a winch. Don't overlook that you can move the chassis relative to the axle in either direction, depending on what you hook the winch to. Or try using the steering to shift the axle side to side.

Leave the threaded rod above alone, but I'd probably get new bushings for the Panhard rod before bolting it in if it's been run loose for a while. Although, it's almost more likely that the holes in the bracket took offense and the bushing survived.

A little too late. I just finished up. I used the threaded rod to spread the Chassis. It was not a big adjustment. I am not sure how I could have used a winch. The problem was the control arm was just a little too long. I could have tried cranking the wheels from side to side. I have looked and looked, and have not found any mention of that threaded rod in the manual.

I put a straight edge on the control arm, and to the best of my ability to tell it is straight. The bushings did not look too bad, no worse than any of the others, but I will see if I can source some.

 

[Another Ahab]

A little too late. I just finished up. I used the threaded rod to spread the Chassis. It was not a big adjustment. I am not sure how I could have used a winch. The problem was the control arm was just a little too long. I could have tried cranking the wheels from side to side. I have looked and looked, and have not found any mention of that threaded rod in the manual.

I put a straight edge on the control arm, and to the best of my ability to tell it is straight. The bushings did not look too bad, no worse than any of the others, but I will see if I can source some.

It feels like folowing a serialized adventure:

- "And stay tuned for the next exciting epsiode!!"

Keep us posted, rtrask. Maybe even a pic from one of your projects.

 

[The FLU farm]

I think that is the purpose of the threaded rod, because it has really fine thread for the diameter of the rod. I think my FLU may have had issues with the control arm in the past. I told you the hole the bolt goes through was wallowed out. It looks to me like someone has welded some additional material on the bracket to reinforce it, and that material shows a lot of wear too.

My guess is that the rod serves as a needed crossmember of sorts, keeping the frame rails from spreading while taking up very little space. And until you weld stout washers, or some other reinforcement, to create round holes again that problem won't go away.

I am not sure how I could have used a winch. The problem was the control arm was just a little too long. I could have tried cranking the wheels from side to side.

With a winch you can easily move the axle side to side relative to the chassis, and in either direction. That Panhard rod is what positions the axle laterally and there can be quite high forces on it. On some vehicles they're straight, on others there are bends in them, but that doesn't matter. It's the distance between the ends (bolts in this case) that counts and positions the axle where it should be relative to the chassis.

Basically, the Panhard rod wasn't too long, but the axle had shifted a bit to the right. And why wouldn't it move when nothing was keeping it in place?

 

[rtrask]

Keep us posted, rtrask. Maybe even a pic from one of your projects.

The list of projects is pretty long. I am continually finding uses for my SEE.

• Tomorrow I will be doing some work for a neighbor who needs to put in a septic system. I agreed to dig the exploration trenches for the engineer to design the system. They are also asking me to dig the leach field, but I am not sure what to charge for that.
• Prior to that I have been scraping weeds off of the area around my house and the road leading to my house. I have always thought that the front end loader is the weak link in the SEE, but after some practice it seems to work fairly well. It is not a bulldozer, but with the right technique it is quite serviceable.
• Prior to that I was building a raised bed garden from some 30' long utility poles that I was gifted. I drug the utility poles from where I had them stacked and used the backhoe to lift them into place. Then filled the bed with soil and manure.
  
• Before that I dug a trench 5' deep and about 100 yards long to bury a water line, and then filled the trench back in afterward.
• Before that I was using the front end loader to move some 3x3x8 bails of hay around.
  
• Before that I used the SEE to move a 40' High cube shipping container to make room for a well I had to dig.

... The list goes on. It has been a really good investment for me.

 

[rtrask]

With a winch you can easily move the axle side to side relative to the chassis, and in either direction. That Panhard rod is what positions the axle laterally and there can be quite high forces on it. On some vehicles they're straight, on others there are bends in them, but that doesn't matter. It's the distance between the ends (bolts in this case) that counts and positions the axle where it should be relative to the chassis.

Basically, the Panhard rod wasn't too long, but the axle had shifted a bit to the right. And why wouldn't it move when nothing was keeping it in place?

Well, I had already finished before your last post. As I said, it was only off by a few mills so I don't think it is worth while to undo the change I made. It probably would not be too hard to back off the nut on the inside, and then tighten the one on the outside to move it back to where it was. If you really think the small change I made was significant I will give that a shot. I wonder what the tolerance is on positioning the axle relative to the chassis. I suspect that at the slow speeds I operate at, it will not make any difference. Had I gotten your reply prior to starting I would likely have been able to do the job by just jacking the front end off the ground and then a winch would likely not been needed.

 

[rtrask]

@The FLU farm I don't mean to sound ungrateful for your help. You have been a great resource ever since I bought my SEE. You help people all the time and you are greatly appreciated.

 

[Another Ahab]

The list of projects is pretty long. I am continually finding uses for my SEE
View attachment 952851
... The list goes on. It has been a really good investment for me.

Man. That is pretty country that you're in there, rtrask.

I shoud know but I just don't; where are you in that San Luis Valley:

- Is that at the foot of the Front Range

- Down in the San Juans

- Somewhere else altogether?!

 

[The FLU farm]

I wonder what the tolerance is on positioning the axle relative to the chassis.

That measurement is fixed by distance between the mounts and the length of the Panhard rod. Sure, it varies a little when the suspension compresses and extends, but since it's nearly horizontal in static position the axle's movements are very small.

And yes, I'll keep calling it a Panhard rod since that's what it is. To me, and most others, a control arm is the upper or lower links in an IFS suspension. Although, those used to be called A-arms.

 

[The FLU farm]

• Prior to that I have been scraping weeds off of the area around my house and the road leading to my house. I have always thought that the front end loader is the weak link in the SEE, but after some practice it seems to work fairly well. It is not a bulldozer, but with the right technique it is quite serviceable.

I'm no fan of the SEE's loader. Maybe it's a lack of practice, but I'm much faster and better with the tractors' loaders.

For dozer work, this one does work quite well. Would be better if there was no suspension, especially in the front, much like when operating the SEE's loader.