Full hydro help needed...smart math people!

[IHASFIP]

Ok, I know PSC sells a fully hydro steering kit for a rockwell. Well that is 1500$ and I am a tight wad and like to build my own stuff. So I have figured out what double ended ram to use and I have figured at what steering valve to use. I am trying to figure out with pump I will need. Like how many cubic inches of displacement will I need. I know the tie rods lateral movement is about ~9 inches. I would really like to have that total amount of movement but being the PSC ram with a 9 " stroke is 350$ that may be out of the question. Maybe not. The PSC ram also has a 3 inch bore. The ram I am looking at is 2.5x8x1.5 . Judging by my math q=As/231 or .17=4.91x8/231 so that comes out to be 39.27 cubic inches of cylinder volume. So then the steering valve I am looking at is 11.3 ci/ rev. It is a load reacting valve by the way. That being 39.27/ 11.3 should come out to be like 3.49 turns lock to lock. Does anyone happen to know how many turns lock to lock the deuce is? I am still trying to figure out what pump to go with. These are the specs of the pump I was looking at.

• 1.5 cu. in displ.
• 2900 PSI max.
• 3.3 GPM Priority flow, 1450 PSI @700-1800 RPM
• 8.3 GPM Auxiliary flow @ 1800 RPM
• CW rotation "x5 1/8"x4 3/4"
• SAE A 2 bolt mount
• Shaft: 5/8"-9 tooth splined
• Inlet port: SAE 12
• Priority Output port: SAE 6
• Auxiliary Output port: SAE 8
• Size: 6 7/8

So if anybody has any other ideas that would be great. I know about the other options for power steering and I have ruled those out. This truck will be trail driven 99 % of the time and very little in my small town. Please don't preach about the legality or safety of this setup. I just need some technical help.

Thanks alot,

Daniel

 

[Delby]

I have a buggy with rocks under it. I use a 2" cylinder with a 8" stroke. the pump i'm using is a howe pump. Puts out I think 1450 psi.

 

[IHASFIP]

How many ci displacement is it?

 

[Delby]

not sure what the displacement is.My tires are 44" tsl's and i can turn the steering wheel with one finger. Go to howeperformance.com and look under rock crawlers part # is 210 its the silver one on the right.

 

[IHASFIP]

Where do you find specs on their parts? And prices???

 

[mudguppy]

most automotive power steering [hydraulic] pumps are rotary vane pumps - adjustable displacement. typically gear or gerotor pumps (and other fixed displacement) pumps are spec'd per that displacement.

rotary vane pumps basically provide a volume based on both rpm and pressure, where as fixed displacement types will push the same volume regardless of what the pressure is.

best advice i can give is get the biggest pump you can find - salvage/take-off from a one-ton pickup truck. FYI - the hi-volume pump from PSC is only $340. i do say only, because it puts out some fluid.

btw, i just ordered this kit yesterday. should be put on next week.

 

[bbf]

i just installed a ps kit from psc in my deuce the pump was installed on the driver side the job was a challenge but it works very well

 

[IHASFIP]

Which pump are you talking about from PSC? I klnow they have the "P" pump like the saginaw system on Chevys, Dodges, and Fords. But in my experience rockcrawling the factory Chevrolet pump sucks. We have burned up so many of those pumps that O'Riellys will no longer warranty them for us. We even have an external reservoir rigged up and a huge cooler. We were only running a hydro HMMWV winch and hydro assist with a pretty small ram. So it should have been up to the task. When we pulled it apart and tweaked it, it worked great for a few hours and then would go out 100%. I don't want to do something like that. I read a 5 ton pump will bolt on but I also ready there is like thirty eleven different spec'd ones.

D

 

[IHASFIP]

i just installed a ps kit from psc in my deuce the pump was installed on the driver side the job was a challenge but it works very well

Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Thanks,
D

 

[mudguppy]

Which pump are you talking about from PSC? I klnow they have the "P" pump like the saginaw system on Chevys, Dodges, and Fords. But in my experience rockcrawling the factory Chevrolet pump sucks. ...

yes - but it isn't a factory pump.

 

[IHASFIP]

Yea, I knew it was alot better. I guess it wouldn't be much harder to mount a p style pump than it would be to mount a Chevrolet alternator. I could just mount it above the generator. I will have to look at pulley options. But I still think I could build the whole system for under a grand. The ram is only 200$ and the steering valve is like 380$. Then I would just need a cooler (old a/c condenser), ( I believe the pump has a built in relief valve), then just an adapter for the steering wheel and some hoses. The tie rod ends I haven't decided on what yet. PSC has the tie rods for 150$, high steer arms for 250$ and the ram to tie rod end adapters for 120$. I think alot of that could be made and I may not have to use the high steer arms. I would really like to see some pictures of 55Cameos setup to get some more ideas.

D

 

[IHASFIP]

On the other hand a constant volume pump like this might be easier to mount. If I could find a pulley to fit it. That might be a little harder... Hmm...damn the brainstorming.

 

[mudguppy]

On the other hand a constant volume pump like this might be easier to mount. If I could find a pulley to fit it. That might be a little harder... Hmm...damn the brainstorming.

you'll have to add a pressure relief valve into that system w/ that style pump. may get more flow, but system gets more complicated (and pricey).

 

[IHASFIP]

i just installed a ps kit from psc in my deuce the pump was installed on the driver side the job was a challenge but it works very well

Do you have any pictures?

D

 

[rizzo]

all my friends use the stock power steering pump and have not had any problems. IIRC they use the 2x8 cylinder from tsc.

 

[IHASFIP]

you'll have to add a pressure relief valve into that system w/ that style pump. may get more flow, but system gets more complicated (and pricey).

Yea that pump is like 170$. Plus making a bracket. And finding a pulley, plus figuring out how many revolutions compared to engine rpms to prevent over revving the pump. Versus a p-pump that will rev alot higher. I was just thinking about the bracket of a p-pump. You have to take the pulley on and off each time to get to the mounting bolts if I remember correctly. It would be some much easier to go air assist but I don't like the way it hangs down and I haven't driven one but it doesn't seem like it would give quite as much oomph as a fully hydro unit.

I just need to get my ducks in a row before I go buying random parts and trying to make them work.

D

 

[bbf]

when i order the system from psc i told them what i was putting it in

 

[IHASFIP]

all my friends use the stock power steering pump and have not had any problems. IIRC they use the 2x8 cylinder from tsc.

Rizzo the stock pump from what? I know you can use a single ended ram for simplicity and cheapness, but I don't like the fact that the ram goes quicker to one side than the other and the pressure it exerts on the extension part of the stroke is greater. I don't personally like that. Our hydro assist is the same way but since it is such a small ram it isn't super noticeable.

D

 

[rizzo]

Rizzo the stock pump from what? I know you can use a single ended ram for simplicity and cheapness, but I don't like the fact that the ram goes quicker to one side than the other and the pressure it exerts on the extension part of the stroke is greater. I don't personally like that. Our hydro assist is the same way but since it is such a small ram it isn't super noticeable.

D

whatever was on the motor.

I'll ask.

 

[IHASFIP]

Ok thanks. Like I said we run a stock 12 valve cummins pump to run our hydro winch and hydro assist and it does ok, but I don't know if it would be up to the task of running a much larger ram on a much larger truck. How does the 5 ton PS pump attach to the LDT motor?

D